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Increasingly frustrated with IPSE

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    Increasingly frustrated with IPSE

    So here we are. Possibly the most badly thought out, badly managed legislation ever implemented by HMRC (even including the initial IR35 all those years ago). Also, potentially one of the most catastrophic for the industry.

    We've widespread confusion, and apathy across the board from clients, agencies, and contractors. No-one seems to know how its going to work.

    And what exactly are IPSE doing about the situation? Not a lot from what I can see. One guide on their website - which wasn't even that complete and had inaccuracies int it (I could have done better myself).

    Seriously, does anyone outside the contract industry know who IPSE are? We've all heard about government projects being delayed because of mass walkouts but no-one outside the industry knows yet. Why aren't IPSE shouting this from the rooftops? They should be on news at 9 talking about this!

    They should be ripping the place up at the moment. All I can see though is attendance at a few HMRC meetings and everyone being friendly to each other. Time to rattle the cage if you ask me.
    Rhyddid i lofnod psychocandy!!!!

    #2
    It appears to me that IPSE's approach is one of trying to play the political game and have quiet chats in Westminster (at least that's what they purport) .

    After that proved to not work (post consultation ) I don't know why they didn't up the media game and bring the kinds of case studies we see about mass walkouts etc to more of the mainstream. In my personal view they've been a bit too soft and played too nicely.

    I think it speaks volumes that Gov invited agencies in to see the ESS early and IPSE didn't get a seat at the table.

    When you look at S3, QDOS and contractor calculator, they are reacting (for their business). Ipse .....not so much.

    Evolve or die and I think IPSE will take a big hit on this. I won't be renewing my subscription with them and will get my insurwnces elsewhere - even if it costs a bit more

    Comment


      #3
      Have you asked IPSE directly? Rung them up and spoken to a senior bod? We've got at least one director and at least 3 elected representatives in the forums you could PM for a private chat etc? I'd personally go and find out before calling them out from the waiting room of a jobcentre.
      Last edited by northernladuk; 24 February 2017, 09:02.
      'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
        Have you asked IPSE directly? Rung them up and spoken to a senior bod? We've got at least one director and at least 3 elected representatives in the forums you could PM for a private chat etc? I'd personally go and find out before calling them out from the waiting room of a jobcentre.
        Not claimed yet butti!
        Rhyddid i lofnod psychocandy!!!!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
          Have you asked IPSE directly? Rung them up and spoken to a senior bod? We've got at least one director on the forums you could PM for a private chat etc?
          There are at least 2 Directors here mudskipper and tf although in the latter case missinggreenfields is the account he uses for IPSE business.

          But to be honest I really can't see what IPSE can do here - and I think everyone knows my opinion of them... They have written and published advice (personally it was about 2 weeks too late and mine is better but heck they have published something).

          There is no legal means of immediate attack that makes sense that anyone can find. IPSE have reached the same decision here that many on here reached last year - this attack is very well planned - and builds on things from elsewhere that have already been ruled as legal (paying tax on behalf of others is the basis of CIS and has been fought all the way and ruled legal).

          Now an injunction may or may not work but is irrelevant as all advice is get out of Dodge (the public sector) now or at least make sure you've got a different agency... Pushing an injunction may work but would just result in the chaos being delayed longer...

          The battle IPSE actually has to do is to work out how to attack the scheme once its in place. And I'm sure they are working on that now - trouble is none of that can be revealed or discussed in detail until some time in April...

          Finally its also worth saying that IPSE are actually an irrelevance going forward. Their main product is IR35 investigation protection when HMRC come knocking on your door. That won't be the case from April in the public sector HMRC will go knocking on the door of the Agency instead. Only if the agency goes belly up will HMRC start pursuing you. And while that might be enough to ensure I kept my IPSE membership (for all its faults and it has a lot) that slim risk is probably not enough for other people to do so.. The change in IR35 targets is such that IPSE's membership will dwindle over the next 5 years as people discover and understand how the new contracting world now works.
          Last edited by eek; 24 February 2017, 09:35.
          merely at clientco for the entertainment

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by youngguy View Post
            It appears to me that IPSE's approach is one of trying to play the political game and have quiet chats in Westminster (at least that's what they purport) .
            I've seen the pictures and it's true.
            'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

            Comment


              #7
              Yep IPSE are a total waste of money. But you're not allowed to say so one here, because the bullies will attack you, it's just like a trade union same bullying and pressure put on people to join them and agree with everything they do.
              Canceled my membership last autumn.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by psychocandy View Post
                So here we are. Possibly the most badly thought out, badly managed legislation ever implemented by HMRC (even including the initial IR35 all those years ago). Also, potentially one of the most catastrophic for the industry.

                We've widespread confusion, and apathy across the board from clients, agencies, and contractors. No-one seems to know how its going to work.

                And what exactly are IPSE doing about the situation? Not a lot from what I can see. One guide on their website - which wasn't even that complete and had inaccuracies int it (I could have done better myself).

                Seriously, does anyone outside the contract industry know who IPSE are? We've all heard about government projects being delayed because of mass walkouts but no-one outside the industry knows yet. Why aren't IPSE shouting this from the rooftops? They should be on news at 9 talking about this!

                They should be ripping the place up at the moment. All I can see though is attendance at a few HMRC meetings and everyone being friendly to each other. Time to rattle the cage if you ask me.
                Its news at 10 now on the beeb, been like that for ages, just to be accurate

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Eirikur View Post
                  Yep IPSE are a total waste of money. But you're not allowed to say so one here, because the bullies will attack you, it's just like a trade union same bullying and pressure put on people to join them and agree with everything they do.
                  Canceled my membership last autumn.
                  Always good to hear an unbiased viewpoint...

                  The total package from IPSE is a lot more than IR35 protection, if you bother to look and understand. Ignore the political stuff and the historical baggage, on a purely commercial basis membership makes a lot more sense than most, and will still be applicable after April; perhaps even more so if you want to challenge your PS client's ruling on your position...

                  OK, I'm biased too, of course, but the other way. The reality, I suspect, is somewhere in the middle. AFAIC IPSE are far from powerless but are faced with an intransigent and appallingly ill-informed government. I'm as frustrated buy it all as anyone, but I'm not blaming IPSE for it.
                  Blog? What blog...?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Look on the bright side. If PC cancels his membership they can genuinely claim they represent professional contractors.
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                    Comment

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