Remote working and IR35

[mmmBeer]

Hi

I've seen it mentioned in a few threads that working remotely is a good anti SDC measure as by default you are working how and when suits you, therefore free of any S,D or C.
I was just wondering if there is a general rule of thumb or even a precedent set as to what is a 'safe' amount to be considered a silver bullet?

Cheers
M.

[stek]

I can't see how remote working has any effect on SDC at all.

[LondonManc]

IR35 isn't a werewolf; therefore, no silver bullet.

[missinggreenfields]

I can't see how remote working has any effect on SDC at all.

Depends whether you are using the IR35 definition (supervision, direction and control) or the HMRC travel and substence definition (supervision or direction or control).

If you're working from home, then you could argue that you aren';t being supervised, which if right then you get out of the IR35 dfeinition which needs all three. If you are looking at the travel rules then it doesn't help because it's only one of the three and you would probably still fail on direction.

Without knowing what the poster is looking to have a silver bullet to, it's impossible to say. Even with that knowledge, it's nigh on impossible to say anyway

[stek]

Depends whether you are using the IR35 definition (supervision, direction and control) or the HMRC travel and substence definition (supervision or direction or control).

If you're working from home, then you could argue that you aren';t being supervised, which if right then you get out of the IR35 dfeinition which needs all three. If you are looking at the travel rules then it doesn't help because it's only one of the three and you would probably still fail on direction.

Without knowing what the poster is looking to have a silver bullet to, it's impossible to say. Even with that knowledge, it's nigh on impossible to say anyway

Not sure about that, in one permie role I had, we worked in Leeds, manager worked in Glasgow, and he was totally micro-managing* us over the messenger system we had there (basically Jabber). Only lasted a year there, had enough! Went back contracting.

*despite his first words being "I don't believe in micro-management, guys..."

He even wanted us to update our messenger status every 15 mins with a comment on what we were working on at that time.

So you can be supervised remotely....

[jamesbrown]

The test is whether there is a sufficient degree of control over the manner in which (i.e. how) you deliver the services, not whether you WFH. There may well be a relationship between the two - generally speaking, there will be a connection - but a given degree of WFH doesn't necessarily imply a lack of SDC or the right thereof (and remember the "SDC test" remains, er, untested beyond what we know about control).

[northernladuk]

I can't see how remote working has any effect on SDC at all.

This... From what I can see we don't even know the exact details of what SDC is to argue the finer points. That said IMO WFH is flexibility around where to do the job and has no bearing on SDC. You work will still be monitored, distributed to you with an expectation of it back in some agreeable format in a timescale dictated by you which is all SDC.

WFH 'might' be part of the bigger picture of how you work which might not be SDC but on it's own it's not IMO

[psychocandy]

Not sure about that, in one permie role I had, we worked in Leeds, manager worked in Glasgow, and he was totally micro-managing* us over the messenger system we had there (basically Jabber). Only lasted a year there, had enough! Went back contracting.

*despite his first words being "I don't believe in micro-management, guys..."

He even wanted us to update our messenger status every 15 mins with a comment on what we were working on at that time.

So you can be supervised remotely....

Thats nuts. What if you went for a dump?

[TheBA]

Thats nuts. What if you went for a dump?

I think there's an emoji for that

[LondonManc]

This... From what I can see we don't even know the exact details of what SDC is to argue the finer points. That said IMO WFH is flexibility around where to do the job and has no bearing on SDC. You work will still be monitored, distributed to you with an expectation of it back in some agreeable format in a timescale dictated by you which is all SDC.

WFH 'might' be part of the bigger picture of how you work which might not be SDC but on it's own it's not IMO