Budget commentary - Telegraph

[tractor]

...

You could be right - I am an optimist at heart

However, if son of IR35 goes ahead (as it stands) then it will effectively kill off self-employment in the UK as SDC could be applied to absolutely anyone and the discussion document states:
"those who engage a worker through a PSC would need to consider whether IR35 applies....and, if so, deduct the correct amount of tax and NIC's"
The Tories keep banging on about helping small businesses so can you see Cameron being happy about being responsible for that?

Cameron couldn't give a stuff. He is happy doing what his bosses Osborn and HMRC tell him to because they have convinced him its all about the tax revenue.

There are several fronts this and the expenses attack can be fought on but they require the appetite for a couple of (successful) court cases to get some case law in place.

[jamesbrown]

That's not the CUK spirit that I know and love It's in my company's interest for son of IR35 to go through but it's just not right so I'll do what I can to fight it

Ultimately, Lisa, I'm not so sure it will be in YourCo's interests. I would imagine that quite a few contractors start with an umbrella company fully expecting to transition to a Ltd once they've become more familiar with how things work. It's difficult to say how all this will play out and impact the wider contracting model, but umbrellas are part of that landscape. Anyway, the spirit of your point is well taken, so thanks for organising what you can

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

Ultimately, Lisa, I'm not so sure it will be in YourCo's interests. I would imagine that quite a few contractors start with an umbrella company fully expecting to transition to a Ltd once they've become more familiar with how things work. It's difficult to say how all this will play out and impact the wider contracting model, but umbrellas are part of that landscape. Anyway, the spirit of your point is well taken, so thanks for organising what you can

You are right we are part of the landscape - we'll be submitting on the T&S consultation on the brolly side and son of IR35 on principal Strange as it is I love this industry so I'll always help out where I can

[LondonManc]

What they'd be better doing is trapping the migrant contractors for full tax initially - if you're on a visa over here, strip out corp tax and VAT at source - rather than them working for a year and disappearing back abroad.

[Contreras]

Cameron couldn't give a stuff. He is happy doing what his bosses Osborn and HMRC tell him to because they have convinced him its all about the tax revenue.

There are several fronts this and the expenses attack can be fought on but they require the appetite for a couple of (successful) court cases to get some case law in place.

In what areas do you see the potential for legal action?

IMHO, for most clients, contracting is not about avoiding NI it's about being able to bin someone easily. If clients are made severally liable then I think we'll see knee-jerk reactions damning contractors to SDC, MoO and no-RoS unless HR/legal perceive an equal risk of having to defend against employment claims.

[jamesbrown]

In what areas do you see the potential for legal action?

IMHO, for most clients, contracting is not about avoiding NI it's about being able to bin someone easily. If clients are made severally liable then I think we'll see knee-jerk reactions damning contractors to SDC, MoO and no-RoS unless HR/legal perceive an equal risk of having to defend against employment claims.

Yeah, as much as I'd like to disagree, I think you're absolutely right. Having clients and agents police for tax evasion/avoidance/planning/imbalances/mentioning tax in passing etc. is going to be the new normal. The goal is to make IR35 moot, because it's an awful lot easier than addressing employment status.

[Zero Liability]

Cameron couldn't give a stuff. He is happy doing what his bosses Osborn and HMRC tell him to because they have convinced him its all about the tax revenue.

There are several fronts this and the expenses attack can be fought on but they require the appetite for a couple of (successful) court cases to get some case law in place.

There is the fact that Cameron isn't going to stand for re-election. Osborne, whom I initially took to be a semi-free market type, seems to be much more of a "balance the books at any cost" cronyist type, and all he really wants to do is appeal to as broad a section of the public as possible, which may involve screwing over some big businesses if need be. Jamesbrown is absolutely right, IMO, that in part they have won based on manipulating the narrative to suit their purposes, and of course most people are not concerned enough to challenge it, on the assumption that it won't affect them (much like when the income tax was introduced in the US, it was only for the "rich" .) A good starting point would be to challenge that narrative, and also put together an evidence-based approach (taking into account the new dividend tax) against the claimed 'protected revenue' figure hector has contrived. When contextualised against their total annual tax take and spend (even a single item like foreign aid dwarfs it), it is insignificant; its direct impact on contractors and end users, OTOH, is not and will not be.

Maybe JB is right and this is just FUD to terrify clients out of using contractors to avoid compliance issues. If there were very clear, unambiguous tests brought in, clients' legal representatives could easily figure out how to maintain an out of IR35 situation that eliminates any risk for them, thus the likely persistence of vague, fuzzy, arbitrary criteria.