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  1. #1

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    Default IR35 assessment by MOD on me- materials as a consultant

    I seem to have been assessed as Inside by by client and the tipping point is the question that involves materials etc. They assessed me as Inside because I don't bring my materials to work and this is more about bringing bricks, machinery, paint etc to work.
    They deem this question to be Not Applicable. They understand it to not be applicable to my role as a consultant where I've been brought in to write procedures, show how MSP can be applied, and create tools within multiple programmes.
    How can this be fair to consultants who bring knowledge and self-funded training to the organisation so that it can be improved. A painter does the same except he or she brings physical materials. I also see the written procedures to be the equivalent of building a sturdy physical wall.
    Has anybody experienced this? Is there any written guidance that shows this question can be applied to consultants and not just labourers?!

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    Still gathering requirements...


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    The tool is rigged. You must have realised this by now.
    Actually they changed answer wordings at least once, and the new wordings gives completely new meaning to the answer. To put you in.
    <snip>
    Last edited by administrator; 16th March 2017 at 23:13. Reason: No need for that :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maroslav View Post
    I seem to have been assessed as Inside by by client and the tipping point is the question that involves materials etc. They assessed me as Inside because I don't bring my materials to work and this is more about bringing bricks, machinery, paint etc to work.
    They deem this question to be Not Applicable. They understand it to not be applicable to my role as a consultant where I've been brought in to write procedures, show how MSP can be applied, and create tools within multiple programmes.
    How can this be fair to consultants who bring knowledge and self-funded training to the organisation so that it can be improved. A painter does the same except he or she brings physical materials. I also see the written procedures to be the equivalent of building a sturdy physical wall.
    Has anybody experienced this? Is there any written guidance that shows this question can be applied to consultants and not just labourers?!
    What complaint have you got exactly? The rules are not aimed at painters or brickies. The target of the new rules is you. It has been that way since 2000 and the start of IR35 but you've had a good long run where you managed to stay outside it. Now you''re caught, I can't see what the problem is.

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    GDL
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    Default Materials

    Materials can be laptop, software, purchased process maps etc. I do not disagree with the statements about the purpose of ir35

  5. #5
    eek
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    Quote Originally Posted by GDL View Post
    Materials can be laptop, software, purchased process maps etc. I do not disagree with the statements about the purpose of ir35
    Materials cannot be laptops and software - they have to be physical goods - for HMRC live (when its convenient to them) in the 19th century...

    Laptops are explicitly excluded in the explanatory text in one of the ESS questions...
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Materials cannot be laptops and software - they have to be physical goods - for HMRC live (when its convenient to them) in the 19th century...

    Laptops are explicitly excluded in the explanatory text in one of the ESS questions...
    They are excluded in the latest version of the ESS. Before that they were not, I believe.
    I wonder if the client can ignore the explanatory text, due to:
    1. it changes over time (often)
    2. it simply dosent describe what the real situation is.

    so go with the answer that fits best.

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    Contractor Among Contractors


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    Quote Originally Posted by GDL View Post
    Materials can be laptop, software, purchased process maps etc. I do not disagree with the statements about the purpose of ir35
    From the tool, definition of materials:
    items that form a lasting part of the work, or an item bought for the work and left behind when the worker leaves (not including stationery, and most likely to be relevant to substantial purchases in the construction industry)
    If you leave a laptop behind because it is somehow part of the project, then it would probably be materials. Similarly if you paid for significant software which was left with the client as part of the deliverable. Otherwise, no.

    Definition of equipment:
    including heavy machinery, industrial vehicles or high-cost specialist equipment, but not including phones, tablets or laptops
    Sorry, it's not equipment, either.

    Other expenses:
    including significant travel and subsistence expenses (not including commuting) or the cost of a business premises outside of the home
    If you spent 2000 on T&S, that would presumably count as "significant". So seems to me if you spend 2K on a laptop, that would be "significant" as well and it should be included under "other expenses." Certainly if I had a PS client that was using the tool, and the questions got this far, I'd be insisting they answered that I had "other expenses" based on the fact that I have to work on my own equipment.

    Note also that the tool does not say "the worker DOES provide" but "the worker has to provide." If it is your option to use your own hardware, then you don't HAVE TO provide it. Your client can only include it if you have to provide it. My contracts always specify that the client will not provide computer equipment and MyCo has to provide it. That's self-evident since I WFH anyway, but I've had that provision in my contracts from the beginning because of IR35.

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    eek
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    Quote Originally Posted by pscont View Post
    They are excluded in the latest version of the ESS. Before that they were not, I believe.
    I wonder if the client can ignore the explanatory text, due to:
    1. it changes over time (often)
    2. it simply dosent describe what the real situation is.

    so go with the answer that fits best.
    The previous question stated that the good were for the project (i.e. consumables like paper or paint).

    People instantly on here suggested a laptop per contract and HMRC suddenly changed the explanatory text...

    Personally because of one thing I do I have a stupidly high spec laptop (1tb m2 card, top of the range Nvidia card, 64gb ram). No end client would give me that and I would have to bodge the work and take days to do what currently takes me 30 minutes.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    The previous question stated that the good were for the project (i.e. consumables like paper or paint).

    People instantly on here suggested a laptop per contract and HMRC suddenly changed the explanatory text...

    Personally because of one thing I do I have a stupidly high spec laptop (1tb m2 card, top of the range Nvidia card, 64gb ram). No end client would give me that and I would have to bodge the work and take days to do what currently takes me 30 minutes.
    And your point is?

  10. #10
    b r
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    A painter does the same except he or she brings physical materials.
    Funny that, our Decorator is non-VAT so to keep his costs down (below the threshold) we always buy the materials.

    Does that mean we now employ him rather than just pay for his work? ;-)

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