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Thread: Beta ESS

  1. #11

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    Just received a link to the private beta; can't share it, unfortunately, as it explicitly asks not to share the link. Apparently, it can be tried up to 60 times in the next 30 days and feedback provided on anything/everything. Status decisions will not be stood behind during the private beta phase. I'll poke around when I get some time, but I'm super busy at the moment, so it may take a while. I assume others have the link too (probably everyone that ever responded to an IR35-related consultation)...

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesbrown View Post
    Just received a link to the private beta; can't share it, unfortunately, as it explicitly asks not to share the link. Apparently, it can be tried up to 60 times in the next 30 days and feedback provided on anything/everything. Status decisions will not be stood behind during the private beta phase. I'll poke around when I get some time, but I'm super busy at the moment, so it may take a while. I assume others have the link too (probably everyone that ever responded to an IR35-related consultation)...
    Yes, came into my inbox earlier, with same caveat about not sharing. Will try and have a look over next couple of days.

  3. #13

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    Don't see what the issue with sharing the link is. I just google "beta employment staus tool" and it threw up this link at the top of the page.

    I don't know if this is the same link or the same tool obviously but perhaps someone who knows might give a clue.

    http://tools.hmrc.gov.uk/esi/screen/...ary?user=guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkie62 View Post
    Don't see what the issue with sharing the link is. I just google "beta employment staus tool" and it threw up this link at the top of the page.

    I don't know if this is the same link or the same tool obviously but perhaps someone who knows might give a clue.

    http://tools.hmrc.gov.uk/esi/screen/...ary?user=guest
    Nope thats the old one.

    The test URL is different, as is the content on loading. Whether the substantive content and questions are different I don't know.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louisa@AardvarkAccounting View Post

    Rumour was the tool was not behaving how they wanted it too...
    You mean it sometimes resulted in an "outside" determination?

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    First impressions, run three tests, two were outside one inside.

    I feel its heavily weighted to SD&C

    Some of the questions could go either way in the hands of someone who didn't think them through or wasn't briefed as to nuances. This could be significant, and I think feedback is needed about making questions clearer.

    Once the worker starts the engagement, who decides how to do the work?
    • The worker decides what needs to be done without any input from the end client
    • The worker and other people employed by the end client agree what needs to be done
    • The end client decides what needs to be done without input from the worker
    • The worker follows the end client's existing employee procedures and guidelines
    To me that doesn't seem to pick up the full range of possible scenarios, and could be misconstrued at completion with significant consequences if the person completing it isn't briefed in the nuances of each selection.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica@WhiteFieldTax View Post
    First impressions, run three tests, two were outside one inside.

    I feel its heavily weighted to SD&C

    Some of the questions could go either way in the hands of someone who didn't think them through or wasn't briefed as to nuances. This could be significant, and I think feedback is needed about making questions clearer.



    To me that doesn't seem to pick up the full range of possible scenarios, and could be misconstrued at completion with significant effects if the person completing it isn't briefed in the nuances of each selection.
    So a rigidly defined outside and 50 shades of inside?

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessica@WhiteFieldTax View Post

    Once the worker starts the engagement, who decides how to do the work?
    •The worker decides what needs to be done without any input from the end client
    •The worker and other people employed by the end client agree what needs to be done
    •The end client decides what needs to be done without input from the worker
    •The worker follows the end client's existing employee procedures and guidelines

    .
    The question asks who decides HOW (method), but the answers all relate to WHAT (specification). If the questions and answers are this stupid I can easily see the first Judge to consider whether or not this test is a true reflection of the law to say "NO - it is rubbish".

    We can see from the Yasmine example that taking clients specifications is not an indicator of SDC.

    WHAT is very very different to HOW.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by breaktwister View Post
    The question asks who decides HOW (method), but the answers all relate to WHAT (specification). If the questions and answers are this stupid I can easily see the first Judge to consider whether or not this test is a true reflection of the law to say "NO - it is rubbish".

    We can see from the Yasmine example that taking clients specifications is not an indicator of SDC.

    WHAT is very very different to HOW.
    Well not all of us it seems...

    2) Yasmine works closely with the end-client to understand their requirements, technical specifications (detailed requirements) and timeline. Whoaaaaa - how da hell is this not "direction" or "control"? Did this "working closely" happen onsite? What if Yasmine had to manage some end-client resources as part of the contract
    'CUK forum personality of 2011' - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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    •The worker follows the end client's existing employee procedures and guidelines

    This is going to confuse end-clients no end. For example, there might be site rules, safety rules and procedures that everyone onsite has to abide by. So if you are onsite in a safety conscious environment you are likely to be considered "inside" as you follow the same procedures and guidelines as other employees?

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