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IR35 furor amongst the pidgeons

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    IR35 furor amongst the pidgeons

    First time posting, long time contractor.

    Although I pretty much exclusively undertake short-term B2B engagements, the vast majority of my colleagues do not and are often on client sites for many multiple of years (6 month rolling extensions) making use of client computer, canteen, social events etc. Think investment/retail banking london IT java/c# development.

    My question is this... given the huge amount of concern/interest/posting/clarification/debate/nervousness that goes into IR35 related questions on this forum, is there anyone here who has actually had an IR35 investigation from the HMRC? If so, would you be willing to clarify the circumstances and elaborate a little?

    I cannot help wonder if it's just a juicy intellectual topic to debate on forums (ie. "should I donate to a leaving collection and sign the permie card"). But then again, maybe I'm just ignorant.

    Thanks,
    Freemont

    #2
    We do have one poster that has been touched by it so will PM see if he is willing to share....

    There is the JLJ case history to dig through as well but doesn't give the detail a chat with someone on here can though. I think you can surmise from that though that most of what you listed are pretty irrelavant if you have a failure of one of the better know and more serious flags, in this case substitution.

    Most of what you have listed can be argued very easily and are not deal breakers. Most of the guys where I am currently would fail long before they started asking about canteens and the like. Somewhere around the point they get a letter and then say 'What is IR35'.........
    Last edited by northernladuk; 23 November 2012, 15:45.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

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      #3
      WNLUKS. Try asking your colleagues how many of them have heard of IR35 or PCG or QDOS (or even Arctic Systems) and count the blank stares...

      I know roughly 40 people who have been through investigations. Most dragged on for years of worry and went nowhere. Some lasted 6 weeks (and really should never even have started). One lost and had to remortgage his house to pay the bills. One or two went to tribunal and won. None of them think IR35 is a trivial matter of no concern...
      Blog? What blog...?

      Comment


        #4
        I had a "PAYE Review" back in 2004.

        The inspector visited my place and asked to see my contracts. He had a list of questions he asked me off a sheet of A4. Wrote down the answers and took away all my books and paperwork. A while later I had a letter asking for some money - not much - I can't even remember how much. I didn't argue I just paid it. 1500 quid I think - not sure - I've posted about this before so the amount maybe in a previous post I'll have a look.

        Anyway, the process was quite easy. The most annoying thing about it all is that he sent years of paperwork back in a big box which the postman left on my doorstep all day long. Not even recorded delivery.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by fraymond View Post
          My question is this... given the huge amount of concern/interest/posting/clarification/debate/nervousness that goes into IR35 related questions on this forum, is there anyone here who has actually had an IR35 investigation from the HMRC?
          Next to no one. You would think given the hyperbole on here that half of the members have been investigated.

          Originally posted by Jubber View Post
          A while later I had a letter asking for some money - not much - I can't even remember how much. I didn't argue I just paid it. 1500 quid I think - not sure -.
          So you cant even remember the sum, can you remember what it was to pay?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by escapeUK View Post
            Next to no one. You would think given the hyperbole on here that half of the members have been investigated.
            There's only been around 10k cases in total, spread across 1.6 million freelances, so what are the odds?


            So you cant even remember the sum, can you remember what it was to pay?
            But I'm guessing it was nothing to do with IR35...
            Blog? What blog...?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by malvolio View Post
              There's only been around 10k cases in total, spread across 1.6 million freelances, so what are the odds?
              Much lower than cancer, and people dont spend all their time posting about that.

              Comment


                #8
                I'm on the board of a large FE college. Our risk register assess risk on probability x impact.

                As things stand probability in IR35 is low, but this may well change.

                Impact however is high, in terms of tax/penalties/interest.

                On that basis I feel it should be high on most people's concerns.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I went through an ir35 investigation supported by PCG/qdos which was dropped by hmrc after about 6 months (iirc). A fellow contractor at the same client also had the same experience. They are very worrying and if I had lost I was facing substantial financial penalties.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Archangel View Post
                    I went through an ir35 investigation supported by PCG/qdos which was dropped by hmrc after about 6 months (iirc). A fellow contractor at the same client also had the same experience. They are very worrying and if I had lost I was facing substantial financial penalties.
                    Had you made a bug out plan? Or were you just going to give them the fruits of your labour?

                    Originally posted by Jessica@WhiteFieldTax View Post
                    Impact however is high, in terms of tax/penalties/interest.

                    On that basis I feel it should be high on most people's concerns.
                    So your view is that the college would pay the extra tax/penalties/interest? Thats not my understanding. Though it would be sensible if contractor paid his share of NI and disguised employer paid their share in the scenario.

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