Holiday Forms and D & C

[Flat Eric]

guys, It's my impression that if I have to submit holiday forms then that would fall under D&C and be an indicator for IR35 inclusiveness

What are your thoughts.
M.

[TheFaQQer]

If it's a permission form, then probably does amount to D&C.

If it's a notification of when you will not be billing them, then that's not D&C.

[Denny]

If you have RoS you shouldn't need to tell anyone when you are off. It's your company they are engaging not you. By filling out these internal admin forms the client is implying that they may need to put in a replacement for you personally, if they need cover whilst you are away. That behaviour is for temps or permies not contractors.

That is an ir35 pointer. Better not to be listed on any forms like this. I always refuse and ask my name to be taken off if I am put on one by default. After all, if it really was a billing absence notification rather than an implied permit to take leave then your company name would be listed not your own name. I bet it's your name though.

[xoggoth]

Can't see why one should not notify a client when you will not be around as a matter of curtesy though, else how can they plan properly? You would expect a builder doing your kitchen to tell you if he had to stop the job for a week. Like a lot of things this is not a real indicator of employment, but the stinking IR insist on treating it as though it is.

[Denny]

Can't see why one should not notify a client when you will not be around as a matter of curtesy though, else how can they plan properly? You would expect a builder doing your kitchen to tell you if he had to stop the job for a week. Like a lot of things this is not a real indicator of employment, but the stinking IR insist on treating it as though it is.

I don't think I was suggesting that you don't notify the client and just take off without a word. That is the point: you just notify them. You don't give status updates on your plans for when you will be in and out on a weekly basis. Does your builder ever do that? No, of course not.

[Flat Eric]

I'm not suggesting that I don't inform the client. I just don't want to be filling in their forms which are the same ones that the permies are required to fill in.

[BrilloPad]

What does D&C stand for?

I thought it was a medical term for a scrape...

<shudders>

[SteveV]

What does D&C stand for?

I thought it was a medical term for a scarpe...

<shudders>

direction and control

[thunderlizard]

I'm not suggesting that I don't inform the client. I just don't want to be filling in their forms which are the same ones that the permies are required to fill in.

That's a good attitude. Going native is a bad thing for many reasons, only one of which is IR35. If there are any bigger suppliers on site, maybe use whatever they do as a guide. A communication on your own branded stationery, telling them what they need to know, ought to send out the right signals.

[Denny]

That's a good attitude. Going native is a bad thing for many reasons, only one of which is IR35. If there are any bigger suppliers on site, maybe use whatever they do as a guide. A communication on your own branded stationery, telling them what they need to know, ought to send out the right signals.

Only if your company is working direct to the client. If through an EB, then contact them on the headed paper instead, because your contract is with them not the end client. Then the EB can inform the client of any of your company absences. Your direct association with the end client should only be about the work for which your company is supplying services, as this kind of D&C is different from the ir35 D&C HMRC get in such a flap about, and is what gives rise to EBs being EBs as opposed to a service consultancy staffed to work for the end-client who would otherwise direct you on deliverables.

Same principle as what applies to travel expenses. This should also be through the EB with VAT added, if your co is VAT registered, not on co letterhead direct to the client for payment, or reimbursed penny for penny on client admin forms.