Computer People standard contract

[boxman]

Hi

Just wondered if anyone had a view on the standard Computer People contract from an IR35 perspective.

Does it fall inside IR35 or outside?

Also, any thoughts on any issues that have arisen for anyone working through them.

thanks

Rob

[Paddy]

Hi

Just wondered if anyone had a view on the standard Computer People contract from an IR35 perspective.

Does it fall inside IR35 or outside?

Also, any thoughts on any issues that have arisen for anyone working through them.

thanks

Rob

I think Computer People offer standard “Terms and Conditions”. Many of their terms and conditions would appear to be unfair in legal terms and therefore debatable if they tried to enforce them. I did a couple of contracts with them and they will yield to your term if they really want you. If you don’t like it, don’t go with them there are plenty of alternative agents.

[Goya]

I'm coming to the end of my current gig with CP & the reason I'm not renewing is that they won't make certain changes to the contract.

I had B&C go through their standard contract & it failed IR35. They negotiated the standard changes for IR35 okay (MOO, substitution, etc) so I signed it.

I wanted to make further changes with regards to IR35 for the renewal. These were mainly to remove the personalisation on the contract (i.e. they list you down as the Personnel, make you sign twice on behalf of Ltd & personnel). Also change the termination notice period from 4 weeks to immediate notice.

The other scary bit is with regards to reimbursement. Not only can they sue your Ltd for any money they deem to have lost, but they also can come after you personally for it. I thought this was unacceptable - they like you to think they treat you as a professional service provider, etc. but when it comes down to the small print they don't.

They wouldn't change the terms so I'm walking.

My advice would be to not use them.

[Not So Wise]

I highly doubt a contract from CP would be IR35 friendly as they seem to consider their contractors as overpaid temps but with less rights than temps

[boxman]

Well that's cost them this gig with me!

I've seen some contracts in my time but as you guys say this one takes the biscuit. It's about as far away from a B2B document as I've ever seen. Still their loss as I told them to forget it but I've already found another pimp prepared to produce a sensible contract that treats my co like the bona-fide supplier that it is.

thanks for your comments.

[malvolio]

Well that's cost them this gig with me!

I've seen some contracts in my time but as you guys say this one takes the biscuit. It's about as far away from a B2B document as I've ever seen. Still their loss as I told them to forget it but I've already found another pimp prepared to produce a sensible contract that treats my co like the bona-fide supplier that it is.

thanks for your comments.

Just be careful that Pimp2 is not merely handing you on to a CP contract - I've played that game and it's another reason I will always refuse to have anything to do with CP (there are other reasons as well...). It's worth checking your new agency is dealing directly with the client and not merely as an intermediary.

[tim123]

I wanted to make further changes with regards to IR35 for the renewal. These were mainly to remove the personalisation on the contract (i.e. they list you down as the Personnel, make you sign twice on behalf of Ltd & personnel). Also change the termination notice period from 4 weeks to immediate notice.

It wouldn't surprise me if it were the client who wouldn't buy into this.

It is clients that don't like contractors walking at no notice, not agents.

tim

[tim123]

The other scary bit is with regards to reimbursement. Not only can they sue your Ltd for any money they deem to have lost, but they also can come after you personally for it. I thought this was unacceptable - they like you to think they treat you as a professional service provider, etc. but when it comes down to the small print they don't.

I can see that you don't like this, but I cannot see how you can equate it with them not seeing you as a professional in the day job.

Asking for a personal guarentee from a small company director is a reasonably 'normal' thing to do. It is dead easy for an inexperienced business man to mismanage the company affairs and end up leaving someone else to pick up the bill. This says nothing at all about how good they are seen as a technician.

tim

[muns]

Goya,

do you have the details of the changes that were negotiated on the standard CP contract, they would be very useful to see.