Public sector IR35- move to fixed term contract? Advice required urgently kind people

**northernladuk** · 20 March 2017, 22:44

I am sure someone helpful will be along in a moment but these questions are being asked very regularly and one guy in the the same position has been posting today I believe. All the answers you want are in in the first few pages of this thread.

You could even try a search. Method is here.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/showthread.php?t=58311

Narrow it to just the IR35 section.. In fact here it is for you. Put this in to Google.

fixed term site:contractoruk.com/public-sector-ir35/

Try changing it to find the answers to your expenses question.

**Blackbird17** · 20 March 2017, 22:57

Thank you Northernladuk, I'll try that now just a lot to think about with limited time!

**eek** · 20 March 2017, 22:57

Originally posted by Blackbird17 View Post

Hello,

This may be a stupid question and has probably been asked a million times before

but can some kindly soul steer me in the right direction?

Advice needed quickly please

1. Contracting to PSB via agency - contract currently outside IR35- ltd company
2. PSB recently informed me that they are deeming all contractors inside- I must either a) take a fixed term contract on the same daily rate ( with holiday pay etc) no rate increase or-
3. Go via umbrella and agency

Been contracting with same client for 22 months now- project at crucial stage will feel responsible if I drop them in it by leaving ASAP however they have not taken any active steps to inform me of their decision until now.

They are willing to give me a different job title and a JD different to my current role - to try and demonstrate a break in contract- I'm concerned re two things

1. Could I be caught retrospectively as I will be with same client?

2. What the best way or maximising income? Fixed term or umbrella- can I claim expenses via an umbrella?

Sorry re all the queries but I have days to decide- seems like quite a few agencies are not actively managing this or being misleading and the PSB don't have a clue - which seems to have led to the blanket inside decisions.....

Help

1) yes you could be unless you went for the FTC as the likely test will be staying at the agency.
2) neither option gives you expenses however that's irrelevant as any renewal takes you past 24 months so expenses would no longer be allowed regardless

**Mordac** · 20 March 2017, 23:00

Originally posted by Blackbird17 View Post

Hello,

This may be a stupid question and has probably been asked a million times before

but can some kindly soul steer me in the right direction?

Advice needed quickly please

1. Contracting to PSB via agency - contract currently outside IR35- ltd company
2. PSB recently informed me that they are deeming all contractors inside- I must either a) take a fixed term contract on the same daily rate ( with holiday pay etc) no rate increase or-
3. Go via umbrella and agency

Been contracting with same client for 22 months now- project at crucial stage will feel responsible if I drop them in it by leaving ASAP however they have not taken any active steps to inform me of their decision until now.

They are willing to give me a different job title and a JD different to my current role - to try and demonstrate a break in contract- I'm concerned re two things

1. Could I be caught retrospectively as I will be with same client?

2. What the best way or maximising income? Fixed term or umbrella- can I claim expenses via an umbrella?

Sorry re all the queries but I have days to decide- seems like quite a few agencies are not actively managing this or being misleading and the PSB don't have a clue - which seems to have led to the blanket inside decisions.....

Help

Re the bit in bold - don't feel guilty about bailing out (you won't be the only one!), if that's what you choose to do, they clearly don't care about your business.
Read some of the sticky posts, most of your questions should be answered. Some of the blanket "inside" decisions have been imposed from above (NHS for example). You can kiss goodbye to expenses, the agency will deduct your tax & NI and the net goes to your Ltd or the Umbrella. If it makes you feel better, you were close enough to hitting 24 months that you would have lost your expenses as soon as you knew you were going over the limit anyway.
Whether you could be caught retrospectively is open to interpretation, and therefore a "very unknown unknown" so if you're in any doubt you should be thinking about leaving before April 6th. If you're on more than a weeks notice you need to get a move on.
Fixed term v Umbrella: I don't know anything about fixed term contracts, but it does sound like a great way to screw you over, so I'd most likely be passing on that one. You need to read their terms and compare with an umbrella, and you need to do it soon.
Best of luck.

**Blackbird17** · 20 March 2017, 23:12

Thank you all kind people - can I ask where does my ltd company stand if I was to take a FTC -dormant?

**WordIsBond** · 21 March 2017, 08:47

Mate, you won't drop them in it, they've dropped themselves in it. You owe them nothing, they are changing the terms of your engagement without negotiation on very short notice.

Unless you really are an employee. Then, there's a mutuality of obligation. But they don't treat their employees the way you just got treated. You have no moral, ethical, legal, or business obligation to do anything for them.

Suppose they came up to your desk, and said, "We need £5K from each of you to put in surveillance cameras of you guys to cover our backsides, pay up." Would you pay or would you tell them to go for a very long excursion off a very short pier into a very deep lake?

Well, they are taking a lot of money out of your pocket simply to cover their backsides.

If it makes sense for you to stay because you need the money, and you can survive the cut in take-home, and you don't have anything else lined up, then stay FTC, keep your LTD, look for another role, and when you find it, bail out. But you need to push any sense of obligation off that pier right now.

**LondonManc** · 21 March 2017, 09:19

Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post

Mate, you won't drop them in it, they've dropped themselves in it. You owe them nothing, they are changing the terms of your engagement without negotiation on very short notice.

Unless you really are an employee. Then, there's a mutuality of obligation. But they don't treat their employees the way you just got treated. You have no moral, ethical, legal, or business obligation to do anything for them.

Suppose they came up to your desk, and said, "We need £5K from each of you to put in surveillance cameras of you guys to cover our backsides, pay up." Would you pay or would you tell them to go for a very long excursion off a very short pier into a very deep lake?

Well, they are taking a lot of money out of your pocket simply to cover their backsides.

If it makes sense for you to stay because you need the money, and you can survive the cut in take-home, and you don't have anything else lined up, then stay FTC, keep your LTD, look for another role, and when you find it, bail out. But you need to push any sense of obligation off that pier right now.

+1

Absolutely, completely and entirely this

**Guesstimator** · 21 March 2017, 09:51

Originally posted by WordIsBond View Post

Mate, you won't drop them in it, they've dropped themselves in it. You owe them nothing, they are changing the terms of your engagement without negotiation on very short notice.

Unless you really are an employee. Then, there's a mutuality of obligation. But they don't treat their employees the way you just got treated. You have no moral, ethical, legal, or business obligation to do anything for them.

Suppose they came up to your desk, and said, "We need £5K from each of you to put in surveillance cameras of you guys to cover our backsides, pay up." Would you pay or would you tell them to go for a very long excursion off a very short pier into a very deep lake?

Well, they are taking a lot of money out of your pocket simply to cover their backsides.

If it makes sense for you to stay because you need the money, and you can survive the cut in take-home, and you don't have anything else lined up, then stay FTC, keep your LTD, look for another role, and when you find it, bail out. But you need to push any sense of obligation off that pier right now.

Another echo for that post. Spot on.

**Fred Bloggs** · 21 March 2017, 09:51

In a few years time (may be less) the FTC will be the normal way to source your temporary workforce. It's the same in many parts of the world. So far, the UK has been largely out of step on that score.

Public sector IR35- move to fixed term contract? Advice required urgently kind people