HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

How do you know this ?

I have lots of RSS feeds and Google alerts. Here you go http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/...nce#g181129.r0

[jbryce]

I have lots of RSS feeds and Google alerts. Here you go Tax Avoidance: 3 Feb 2014: Hansard Written Answers - TheyWorkForYou

Phew.
Luckily there is no hard precedent that states that the Sanzar scheme was ineffective.
....yet.

[malvolio]

Phew.
Luckily there is no hard precedent that states that the Sanzar scheme was ineffective.
....yet.

There doesn't have to be. One alternative is they prove you were not in a position to use it...

Don't expect quick or simple answers or outcomes, I doubt they will be forthcoming

[jbryce]

There doesn't have to be. One alternative is they prove you were not in a position to use it...

Don't expect quick or simple answers or outcomes, I doubt they will be forthcoming

Yup, I think you're 100% correct, it's going to be a rather lengthy, bumpy and cloudy ride.

I'll fight it (obviously), but in one sense HMRC have won: This is so irritatingly a pain in the arse that I'm keeping well away from all avoidance schemes - yes some of them are certainly tenable, but is it worth the grief of years of HMRC hassle? Nope.

[creativity]

Yes I absolutely agree. HMRC have won already as these schemes will be defunct very shortly - and good riddance.
Well done to the HMRC (and I mean that).

However, what we need now is some fairness in the way HMRC use their powers. Take something but not their homes or lively hoods. Lessons have been learnt and penalties (tax) will be given, but perhaps from appeals that are open already and leave it at that. Saves time and money on both sides.

No matter what happens at least this awful selling of schemes might stop. I was once suckered in very naively - never again.

[TykeMerc]

Yup, I think you're 100% correct, it's going to be a rather lengthy, bumpy and cloudy ride.

I'll fight it (obviously), but in one sense HMRC have won: This is so irritatingly a pain in the arse that I'm keeping well away from all avoidance schemes - yes some of them are certainly tenable, but is it worth the grief of years of HMRC hassle? Nope.

Which is EXACTLY why their tactics are this way, they are seeking to recover tax that they feel has been avoided by dodgy approaches at the same time driving people away from using esoteric tax planning.

If the number of schemes is reduced and the number of taxpayers using the schemes is minimal it's a considerably smaller pain in the nuts for them to resolve long term.
To be fair people have said for decades that the tax rules were excessively and increasingly complicated which is why there were so many apparent loopholes to exploit, they're simplifying the situation and also clobbering the loopholes and their users.
When the Government announced a policy of simplification it was clear (at least to me) that they would kick the loophole exploitation industry to death as a necessary step. While the measures they're taking do have a lot of issues on the natural justice front it's hard to argue against it is tackling the complexity and tax avoidance issues that have bugged the tax people for a long time.

[jbryce]

Which is EXACTLY why their tactics are this way, they are seeking to recover tax that they feel has been avoided by dodgy approaches at the same time driving people away from using esoteric tax planning.

If the number of schemes is reduced and the number of taxpayers using the schemes is minimal it's a considerably smaller pain in the nuts for them to resolve long term.
To be fair people have said for decades that the tax rules were excessively and increasingly complicated which is why there were so many apparent loopholes to exploit, they're simplifying the situation and also clobbering the loopholes and their users.
When the Government announced a policy of simplification it was clear (at least to me) that they would kick the loophole exploitation industry to death as a necessary step. While the measures they're taking do have a lot of issues on the natural justice front it's hard to argue against it is tackling the complexity and tax avoidance issues that have bugged the tax people for a long time.

It's certainly not fair, but it's Tax - why should it be? This was an esoteric scheme, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't valid. It's certainly defensible, and I'm definitely going to make them fight for their money.

The point is going forward, who, in their right mind, would take the risk? I certainly won't and I'd certainly advise anyone to avoid such schemes in the future and, if they're in one now, to get out.

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

It's certainly not fair, but it's Tax - why should it be? This was an esoteric scheme, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't valid. It's certainly defensible, and I'm definitely going to make them fight for their money.

The point is going forward, who, in their right mind, would take the risk? I certainly won't and I'd certainly advise anyone to avoid such schemes in the future and, if they're in one now, to get out.

Excellent advice

[jbryce]

Excellent advice

Why thank you

But please, for other readers of this forum, the Sanzar scheme is most likely very defensible. It may be painful and troublesome and there are no guarantees when it comes to the law and to tax, but I do urge you to hold your nerve.

[MrO666]

As much as I hate to say it, I do think that "some" people on this forum are slightly deluded in their thinking.

We all knew that these schemes were grey at best, and anybody who can genuinely say they didn't think a promise of 85%+ of contract value wasn't in someway suspicious must be very short on intelligence.

Now i'm not saying that these schemes were or were not 100% watertight, and they well may be proven to be in the fullness of time, however if it's proven not to be then you just need to take it on the chin and deal with it. Ultimately HMRC will want their money, and no matter what people say about HMRC snatching your house etc, if you can work out a way of paying them back over a reasonable amount of time, i'm sure they would much rather that than a house.

Yes it'll be painful, yes lessons have been learnt, but ultimately what i'm saying is that people need to take some responsibility for their own actions over all of this, instead of just saying 'i was told of was ok'.

I know people will probably shoot me down over this, but at the end of the day I openly entered into something, which may or may not come back to bite me.........if it does, I'll deal with it, if it doesn't....happy days.