can I contact HMRC to settle

[ConfusedEasily]

WTF? Loan Charge? Was HMRC planning on telling me?

My Agency made me use Edge(???) about 10 years ago for about 6 months.
HMRC have never contacted me - I only heard about the Loan charge from a couple of colleagues

I have no documentation from that period.
The Agency has no documentation from that period.
My Bank has no ability to recover statements.
Edge has disappeared.

How the F*** am I meant to make a voluntary payment?
How the F*** am I mean to confirm any numbers HMRC come up with?

I feel for all of you. This is Crazy!!!!

[piebaps]

The Edge thread is here Confused, hopefully it helps http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-...hread-183.html

[WalterWhite]

My Agency made me use Edge(???) about 10 years ago for about 6 months.
HMRC have never contacted me - I only heard about the Loan charge from a couple of colleagues

I have no documentation from that period.
The Agency has no documentation from that period.
My Bank has no ability to recover statements.
Edge has disappeared.

How the F*** am I meant to make a voluntary payment?
How the F*** am I mean to confirm any numbers HMRC come up with?

I feel for all of you. This is Crazy!!!!

Have you not heard anything from HMRC?

[ChimpMaster]

My Agency made me use Edge(???) about 10 years ago for about 6 months.
HMRC have never contacted me - I only heard about the Loan charge from a couple of colleagues

I have no documentation from that period.
The Agency has no documentation from that period.
My Bank has no ability to recover statements.
Edge has disappeared.

How the F*** am I meant to make a voluntary payment?
How the F*** am I mean to confirm any numbers HMRC come up with?

I feel for all of you. This is Crazy!!!!

Have you not heard anything from HMRC?

If you have not heard anything, log onto your self assessment page on HMRC's website to check that there aren't any Open years, where HMRC might have issued a Discovery Notice (or Assessment - I'm sure more educated people here will clarify the difference?)

If nothing is there, then your years are Closed which means you are not allowed to settle with HMRC in the latest settlement 'opportunity'. This means you will need to wait for the 2019 loan charge, though as I understand it there is no indication of how this will work yet.

[ConfusedEasily]

If you have not heard anything, log onto your self assessment page on HMRC's website to check that there aren't any Open years, where HMRC might have issued a Discovery Notice (or Assessment - I'm sure more educated people here will clarify the difference?)

If nothing is there, then your years are Closed which means you are not allowed to settle with HMRC in the latest settlement 'opportunity'. This means you will need to wait for the 2019 loan charge, though as I understand it there is no indication of how this will work yet.

No open years. But that's the F**** point, they don't need the years to be open for the Loan Charge.

My accountant contacted HMRC to discuss the year in question and they didn't have sufficient information to help him.

So, basically, unless I am a tax nerd or I overhear someone talking about the 2019 charge then the first I would have known about it would be in 2019?

This is ridiculous.

[starstruck]

If nothing is there, then your years are Closed which means you are not allowed to settle with HMRC in the latest settlement 'opportunity'. This means you will need to wait for the 2019 loan charge, though as I understand it there is no indication of how this will work yet.

Not true .. you can settle closed years with a "voluntary" payment - announced last week. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ttlement-terms

[ConfusedEasily]

Not true .. you can settle closed years with a "voluntary" payment - announced last week. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ttlement-terms

errr Ok. And for those who don't have records? How do you evidence to HMRC that your 'voluntary' payment is valid?

HMRC don't have enough info in my case and, if I make a voluntary payment and it's wrong then - as my accountant points out - I leave myself open to a charge of evasion.

My accountant is suggesting that any voluntary payment would have to be agreed by HMRC. To make sure that there is no comeback we'd need a legal document signed by HMRC to confirm that they're happy. It's highly unlikely that HMRC will give such an assurance - so there's no actual 'closure'

She, my accountant, reckons that HMRC have not thought this through. It's a legal minefield.

[starstruck]

errr Ok. And for those who don't have records? How do you evidence to HMRC that your 'voluntary' payment is valid?

HMRC don't have enough info in my case and, if I make a voluntary payment and it's wrong then - as my accountant points out - I leave myself open to a charge of evasion.

My accountant is suggesting that any voluntary payment would have to be agreed by HMRC. To make sure that there is no comeback we'd need a legal document signed by HMRC to confirm that they're happy. It's highly unlikely that HMRC will give such an assurance - so there's no actual 'closure'

She, my accountant, reckons that HMRC have not thought this through. It's a legal minefield.

If the settlement on offer does not offer any legal protection then yes it is pointless.

[ChimpMaster]

Not true .. you can settle closed years with a "voluntary" payment - announced last week. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ttlement-terms

Oh yes, now it's clear:

Income Tax is due for years in which loans were paid, or other payments were made, where HMRC has an assessment in place or is still in time to make an assessment (referred to in this guidance as ‘protected years’). The tax is calculated at the rates and bands applicable in the year of the loan or payment.

To prevent future DR charges (including the loan charge) arising on loans or other payments made from funds paid into the DR scheme in years which are not protected, contractors must make a voluntary payment. This voluntary payment (referred to as voluntary restitution) is calculated at the rates and bands applicable in the year the loan or payment was made. Once a contractor enters into an agreement with HMRC to make voluntary restitution, it will become legally enforceable.

Late payment interest is due for protected years. No late payment interest will be payable on voluntary restitution.


Assuming you were a 40% tax payer in all those years, and don't have any Open years, then you might as well wait for the 2019 loan charge. That's how I read it anyway, i.e. there is no financial benefit to making a voluntary payment now.

[starstruck]

This means you will need to wait for the 2019 loan charge, though as I understand it there is no indication of how this will work yet.

Yes - how are you supposed to company settlement with unknown?!! Surely they have to provide clarify for 2019 charge at some point - by start of tax year? Does anyone know?