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Paying back what you haven't got.

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    #21
    Originally posted by davedavis View Post
    Your comments on these threads make me believe you deserve all you get
    Now back to business

    I would expect that if you are paying APN's and the scheme went to court and won, all APN's would be refunded, even if your not part of the funded group.

    If you settle that would be an different matter, once settled then no refund would be returned.
    Question is why would you settle if you have to pay the APN which in theory would be the same amount for settlement.

    The only reason I would settle is on favourable terms for myself. But what is favourable terms if you settle on tax which is currently not owed.

    Due to the Rangers case which was poorly implemented, and to date, HMRC have not won any court cases on EBTs via use of loans.

    I would rather pay £1000 towards an fighting fund and have the possibility of having MY MONEY returned, than settle for the same amount.
    What do you have to lose. You have already paid via APN's, so realistacally your in a win,win although its costing an £1000, but you may get all your money back

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      #22
      Originally posted by cojak View Post
      I suggest that everyone steps away from their keyboards.
      Why is that? All I have done is expose Mal for being a troll. Whats wrong with that? I have already had a congratulatory post here and a PM about this. He is allowed by you and admin to get away with spite at those who have suffered retrospective legislation, bankruptcy(potential and actual) and suicide.

      I think your defence of someone who laughs at suicide is it total disgrace. Just to keep you happy I will start a thread in the bear pit. I hope you are going to allow some common sense over there. Mal deserves a perma-ban. You know, we all know it.

      Go on. Prove me right about you. Delete this post. Ban me. I know I am right - and at least I can hold my head high.

      Thats my last post here - see you in general.

      Comment


        #23
        Notice that no posts have been deleted.

        I'm asking people nicely to stop the flame wars in this forum.
        "I can put any old tat in my sig, put quotes around it and attribute to someone of whom I've heard, to make it sound true."
        - Voltaire/Benjamin Franklin/Anne Frank...

        Comment


          #24
          Originally posted by horrada View Post
          I would expect that if you are paying APN's and the scheme went to court and won, all APN's would be refunded, even if your not part of the funded group.

          If you settle that would be an different matter, once settled then no refund would be returned.
          Question is why would you settle if you have to pay the APN which in theory would be the same amount for settlement.

          The only reason I would settle is on favourable terms for myself. But what is favourable terms if you settle on tax which is currently not owed.

          Due to the Rangers case which was poorly implemented, and to date, HMRC have not won any court cases on EBTs via use of loans.

          I would rather pay £1000 towards an fighting fund and have the possibility of having MY MONEY returned, than settle for the same amount.
          What do you have to lose. You have already paid via APN's, so realistacally your in a win,win although its costing an £1000, but you may get all your money back
          I think the main reason to settle is it would be the end of it. If the APN is paid, there is always the chance that it will drag on for years, and that's assuming you or your provider is able to fund taking HMRC to have your day in court, appeals etc. I understand that case law is with EBTs, but it is still not 100% that HMRC will be defeated and at a minimum interest would be charged. Move forward 5,6 or 10 years from now and that could be a substantial amount again so potentially not the same as a settlement.

          Also, the impact on people's lives has been massive with s58, EBTs and the introduction of APN and FN. How many sleepless nights have been had by members of this forum alone? Divorce, separation, depression and in one case I know about, suicide.


          I'm not saying that this is the right (and certainly not fair) thing to do, but settlement may be an option for some if it is feasible.

          Comment


            #25
            Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
            Mal deserves a perma-ban. You know, we all know it.
            Isn't calling for a ban a bannable offence? Surely it's about time you disappeared again.
            Best Forum Advisor 2014
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              #26
              Originally posted by horrada View Post
              The only reason I would settle is on favourable terms for myself. But what is favourable terms if you settle on tax which is currently not owed.
              Interest charges would be the only thing I could think of that might still accrue while you fight it.
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                #27
                Originally posted by dezze View Post
                I think the main reason to settle is it would be the end of it. If the APN is paid, there is always the chance that it will drag on for years, and that's assuming you or your provider is able to fund taking HMRC to have your day in court, appeals etc. I understand that case law is with EBTs, but it is still not 100% that HMRC will be defeated and at a minimum interest would be charged. Move forward 5,6 or 10 years from now and that could be a substantial amount again so potentially not the same as a settlement.

                Also, the impact on people's lives has been massive with s58, EBTs and the introduction of APN and FN. How many sleepless nights have been had by members of this forum alone? Divorce, separation, depression and in one case I know about, suicide.


                I'm not saying that this is the right (and certainly not fair) thing to do, but settlement may be an option for some if it is feasible.
                I understand what your saying and to move on.

                But once APNs are paid, why would interest accrue? To me there is no difference between settlement or APNs, just settlement you add interest now and APNs you will pay interest outstanding years down the line.

                Interest will not increase any further.

                Or your doing is removing opportunity to get your money back.

                Comment


                  #28
                  Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post
                  Isn't calling for a ban a bannable offence? Surely it's about time you disappeared again.
                  Self referencing pointer alert.

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Originally posted by horrada View Post
                    I understand what your saying and to move on.

                    But once APNs are paid, why would interest accrue? To me there is no difference between settlement or APNs, just settlement you add interest now and APNs you will pay interest outstanding years down the line.

                    Interest will not increase any further.

                    Or your doing is removing opportunity to get your money back.
                    I think there are few of scenarios..

                    - you settle and no interest is charged. I don't know if this is possible nowadays.

                    - you settle and pay the interest that has accrued to that point. e.g. relates to a tax year 3 years ago (3 x 3%)

                    - you pay the APN (tax only) and in say 5 years time lose (8 x 3%)

                    - you pay the APN (tax only) and in say 5 years time win. You get back the APN PLUS 5 x 3% (if HMRC rate is correct)


                    The scenario where you pay the APN and lose down the line is worse than settling. That's my understanding anyway.

                    Of course, you could pay the APN and invest the money you would have paid as interest into a good investment that outstrips the HMRC interest rates. That would be better.

                    Comment


                      #30
                      [QUOTE=dezze;1970425]I think there are few of scenarios..

                      - you settle and no interest is charged. I don't know if this is possible nowadays.

                      - you settle and pay the interest that has accrued to that point. e.g. relates to a tax year 3 years ago (3 x 3%)

                      - you pay the APN (tax only) and in say 5 years time lose (8 x 3%)

                      - you pay the APN (tax only) and in say 5 years time win. You get back the APN PLUS 5 x 3% (if HMRC rate is correct)


                      The scenario where you pay the APN and lose down the line is worse than settling. That's my understanding anyway.

                      See page 46, item 2.5.1 of the HMRC Guidance of 17 July.

                      The APN itself will not attract interest if it is paid late. It will however attract a penalty of 5%. If it remains unpaid, further 5% penalties kick in after 5 months and 11 months.

                      Given that the APN is HMRC's estimate of the tax due, if it is paid it will count as a contribution towards the outstanding tax. As such interest on the amount of disputed tax taken into account in a paid APN will run only to that date. In that sense it acts pretty much like a CTD.

                      If the APN does not cover the final amount of tax due, further interest will be due.

                      If the APN exceeds the tax due, the excess is repaid with interest calculated from date of payment at a whacking 0.5%.

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