Plan b - buying a pub

[OwlHoot]

Originally Posted by Bob Dalek

I never really understood why HM Gov. didn't go for the extraction system approach. ..

I think it's because extractor fans would use too much energy, and the UK has signed up to the Kyoto treaty (if that's still going).

Also, banning something gives fascist-minded, mostly Labour, MPs a big buzz. They can kid themselves they're in control and actually matter, and aren't just a bunch of powerless nonentities.

[minestrone]

Originally Posted by Bob Dalek

How, then, do you explain the direct correlation between the smoking ban and hundreds of pubs suddenly shutting their doors for good?

The smoking ban is simply an unrelated event that has happened during the course of society's changing drinking habits, it is easy to pinpoint that with the blame for pubs closing.

If you somehow limited the amount of sales of booze from shops to what they were 20 years ago pubs would be full to bursting.

[Bagpuss]

Originally Posted by minestrone

I think the smoking ban was actually good for pub business, most of the pubs I know got a lot more trade in the early evening with people going for a quick meal and a couple of pints.

20 or 30 years ago drinking at home was frowned upon, now home drinking makes up about 80% of drink trade. That is the real reason for pubs closing.

Don't agree, ask any publican and they will tell you the effect, occasional drinkers and the scampi and chips brigade were not the main custom. Like another poster pointed out, why have such a large number of pubs gone out of business since the ban?

Cheap alcohol from supermarkets isn't a recent thing, or the reason. People don't drink in pubs because it's cheap.

[TykeMerc]

Originally Posted by minestrone

The smoking ban is simply an unrelated event that has happened during the course of society's changing drinking habits, it is easy to pinpoint that with the blame for pubs closing.

If you somehow limited the amount of sales of booze from shops to what they were 20 years ago pubs would be full to bursting.

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you, based on the sheer weight of available evidence you're completely wrong.

There are no less than 8 pubs within half a mile of my house including one about 2 minutes stroll round the corner, prior to the smoking ban all had well established landlords or managers and at least externally appeared to be doing good business. Of the 8 one is still open and they're on their 4th temporary manager, the rest are boarded up. I know the former landlord of the one round the corner and he directly attributes the trade falling to unsustainable levels in the weeks following the smoking ban as do most of the local LVA.
In the town centre the number of pubs has also markedly reduced and those that are still open are noticably less busy and have been since the ban came in.

The early evening trade was the jam on top of their bread and butter trade and now they've lost the bread and butter and the jam simply doesn't have anything to go on top of.

[Bob Dalek]

Originally Posted by TykeMerc

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you, based on the sheer weight of available evidence you're completely wrong.

There are no less than 8 pubs within half a mile of my house including one about 2 minutes stroll round the corner, prior to the smoking ban all had well established landlords or managers and at least externally appeared to be doing good business. Of the 8 one is still open and they're on their 4th temporary manager, the rest are boarded up. I know the former landlord of the one round the corner and he directly attributes the trade falling to unsustainable levels in the weeks following the smoking ban as do most of the local LVA.
In the town centre the number of pubs has also markedly reduced and those that are still open are noticably less busy and have been since the ban came in.

The early evening trade was the jam on top of their bread and butter trade and now they've lost the bread and butter and the jam simply doesn't have anything to go on top of.

At least 5 pubs have shut in my smallish town and (here's the interesting bit) haven't reopened. The usual way was for Mr. Landlord to be banged-up for gun-running, etc., and then Mr. Landlord-B to open up. Not so now - they stay shut.

[Bob Dalek]

Originally Posted by OwlHoot

I think it's because extractor fans would use too much energy, and the UK has signed up to the Kyoto treaty (if that's still going).

Also, banning something gives fascist-minded, mostly Labour, MPs a big buzz. They can kid themselves they're in control and actually matter, and aren't just a bunch of powerless nonentities.

I don't think that an extraction system would necessarily be akin to a jumbo jet engine in its fuel usage. There are various ways of cleaning the air - including static absorption methods. The Gov. (as you imply) got off on a power trip, and wrecked millions of folks' enjoyment, and thousands of folks' jobs. Dontcha just love 'em?!

[Shimano105]

Do people really think that the smoking ban was brought in to appease non-smokers who were stood outside tutting?

It was brought in on the back of the ban on smoking in the workplace which was increasingly being used by lawyers to sue businesses that still allowed smoking. The ban was inevitable one day.

This has also extended to smoking in other 'workplaces' such as company vehicles.

I thought it was obvious

[BrilloPad]

I thought the smoking ban came in as the tobacco companies did not bung liebour enough?

[minestrone]

Originally Posted by TykeMerc

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you, based on the sheer weight of available evidence you're completely wrong.

There are no less than 8 pubs within half a mile of my house including one about 2 minutes stroll round the corner, prior to the smoking ban all had well established landlords or managers and at least externally appeared to be doing good business. Of the 8 one is still open and they're on their 4th temporary manager, the rest are boarded up. I know the former landlord of the one round the corner and he directly attributes the trade falling to unsustainable levels in the weeks following the smoking ban as do most of the local LVA.
In the town centre the number of pubs has also markedly reduced and those that are still open are noticably less busy and have been since the ban came in.

The early evening trade was the jam on top of their bread and butter trade and now they've lost the bread and butter and the jam simply doesn't have anything to go on top of.

What is the percentage of smokers now in the UK? 20% maybe? HOw many of those 20% would think "well since the ban i'm just going to drink in the house" 20% if that. So we are talking about 4% of the nation who have probably decided that since the smoking ban they are not going into pubs. The evidence points to a change of drinking habits.

[NetwkSupport]

What is the percentage of smokers now in the UK? 20% maybe? HOw many of those 20% would think "well since the ban i'm just going to drink in the house" 20% if that. So we are talking about 4% of the nation who have probably decided that since the smoking ban they are not going into pubs. The evidence points to a change of drinking habits.

Dont agree, i stopped going to pubs so much when the ban came into force because i didnt enjoy having a drink in the pub as much (loved my beer and fag). and standing in the cold wet uk weather with a cold pint isnt my idea of fun.