3rd world NHS

[CoolCat]

State backed insurance is the WORST possibly solution. You say you have seen how poor people in the US are treated, then you say you've gone private in the UK.
The US healthcare system is one of the biggest jokes in the world.
Patients go to doctors telling them their symptoms and what they want prescribed.
Doctors are paid by drug companies and insurance companies to make sure the money flows the right way.
Treatment is not the aim, but money making.
US pharmas spend around $5billion a year on advertising to patients.
The US has the highest rate of opioid consumption - due to prescribing pills rather than healing people, because operations cost too much and there's a higher risk of being sued than there is if people are doped up to the eyeballs
And then I have worked with Americans who have insurance and are paying $5k a year, but with a long list of exceptions to what is covered.

rather bored with this style of argument, as I say I have seen first hand what really happens and dont need to read the guardian to inform my view of the world.

and in any case you should be comparing and contrasting us with New Zealand, Belgium, Italy, and so on.

And I can list countless cases where the NHS has been disgusting beyond belief. People told on admission they needed an emergency stent, and that they were unlikely to get it in that hospital, docs hinting they should get in a taxi to another hospital, dead a week later. Countless people dead from prostate cancer that the hospice docs say would be alive decades later in ANY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY. moles which are potentially skin cancer removal in a 6 month wait.

I could go on.

Don't sanctimoniousnessly defend this crap.

To say nothing of 2 week wait to see a GP, which often ends up being an appointment with a nurse or health care assistant I kid you not thesedays.

[SueEllen]

My expectation is that those systems only look better to you as you haven't got direct experience of them.

The grass is always greener on the other side until you taste it...

All systems have their flaws it is just where do you want the flaws to be.

You can either have your individual healthcare deliberately rationed by your CCG/healthboard/some other organisation or have some form of insurance restrictions.

In systems where people have to pay towards their healthcare there is suppose to be more of an element of personal responsibility. Though with the amount of antibiotics I know the US and French people I've met have got out of their doctors in their respective countries, and then complain here when they are refused them you wouldn't think so.

[scooterscot]

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.

Whilst studying for her doctorate Mrs Scooter worked as a Clinical psychologist on the NHS until the practice she would eventually leave behind. Was always impressed she managed to remain in the service for as long as she did. Plagued with problems from the outset. Far too many patients I recall. Seems clinicians knew of each other on a first name basis up and down the country so few are their numbers. The pay was abysmal after 7 years of study.

As with everything, piss poor planning on the government's part with no long term view. Whats his face, Jeremy Hunt will come out of all this like he's the hero with a well deserved peerage. The NHS has been near destroyed under his watch. I don't understand. In Germany he'd have been hung from up high years ago.

[SueEllen]

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.

Whilst studying for her doctorate Mrs Scooter worked as a Clinical psychologist on the NHS until the practice she would eventually leave behind. Was always impressed she managed to remain in the service for as long as she did. Plagued with problems from the outset. Far too many patients I recall. Seems clinicians knew of each other on a first name basis up and down the country so few are their numbers. The pay was abysmal after 7 years of study.

As with everything, piss poor planning on the government's part with no long term view. Whats his face, Jeremy Hunt will come out of all this like he's the hero with a well deserved peerage. The NHS has been near destroyed under his watch. I don't understand. In Germany he'd have been hung from up high years ago.

Divide and conquer.

[sasguru]

I'm pretty ignorant about this, so please set me straight.

You seem to be ignorant about a lot of things. Do some research before expecting to be spoon fed, you lazy git.
I don't usually agree with Coolcat, who seems to have a "I'm a victim mentality" more often than not.
But on this issue he is correct.
The best health systems are measured on outcomes, in the HEOR world.
Both the UK and US which are polar opposites do badly by these measures.
The system that consistently came top (until very recently) was the French system.
The German system which is similar in organisation to the French also scores highly.
We should learn and copy the best ideas from these systems. Both involve far more patient choice than the NHS.
The poor are protected too.

[SueEllen]

You seem to be ignorant about a lot of things. Do some research before expecting to be spoon fed, you lazy git.
I don't usually agree with Coolcat, who seems to have a "I'm a victim mentality" more often than not.
But on this issue he is correct.
The best health systems are measured on outcomes, in the HEOR world.
Both the UK and US which are polar opposites do badly by these measures.
The system that consistently came top (until very recently) was the French system.
The German system which is similar in organisation to the French also scores highly.
We should learn and copy the best ideas from these systems. Both involve far more patient choice than the NHS.
The poor are protected too.

I didn't realise there was patient choice in the NHS with doctors.

[woohoo]

You seem to be ignorant about a lot of things. Do some research before expecting to be spoon fed, you lazy git.
I don't usually agree with Coolcat, who seems to have a "I'm a victim mentality" more often than not.
But on this issue he is correct.
The best health systems are measured on outcomes, in the HEOR world.
Both the UK and US which are polar opposites do badly by these measures.
The system that consistently came top (until very recently) was the French system.
The German system which is similar in organisation to the French also scores highly.
We should learn and copy the best ideas from these systems. Both involve far more patient choice than the NHS.
The poor are protected too.

No links to backup your statements, a piss poor suggestion to "learn and copy the best ideas" and a half-arsed insult. At least be interesting, informative or funny; just don't be bland and mediocre.

[LoughriggFell]

I have worked in the NHS and private Health care for 15 years, and I am under no illusions about either. The NHS and science generally has increased peoples lifespans dramatically. I am caring for people at home, who 10 years ago would not have survived in hospital. It used to be a novelty to work with someone in their 90's now its an everyday occurrence. It has reached capacity and is having to severely ration the service. That should happen fairly as part of a honest consultation, but it doesn't.

Private health care in the UK is still really in its infancy. It cannot handle anything tricky. The easy, profitable ,straight forward stuff has been creamed off by the private company's ( simple orthopaedics, physio etc) but anything complicated and people are referred back to the NHS where the vast majority of skill and expertise is.

I am sorry you're having such problems. The ambulance and mental health services are the area's to my mind that are being asked to do the impossible, with no resources.

[scooterscot]

I am sorry you're having such problems. The ambulance and mental health services are the area's to my mind that are being asked to do the impossible, with no resources.

yup, mental health in the UK is a time bomb in the making. Nothing being done to address it.

[eek]

yup, mental health in the UK is a time bomb in the making. Nothing being done to address it.

I suspect it’s actually unfixable. The people and children I know with mental health issues all have utterly dysfunctional families.