Finally a possibly good Brexit outcome

[SueEllen]

Sensible lady. When people question the NHS, people always suggest we'd get a US style system. The French or Australian health style systems would probably function a lot better.

Don't they all pay more for healthcare provision?

This is why the UK government is unlikely to go there.

[NotAllThere]

Don't they all pay more for healthcare provision?

This is why the UK government is unlikely to go there.

Well, yes. Because "something" is more than "nothing".

If a French or Australian style insurance was introduce, with a cut in NI that made the overall cost to the individual the same or less, even those people who were paying less would still feel they were having to pay for what used to be "free".

[Bean]

The NHS comes out top (err, well...)

Worth noting that if you care to keep reading and follow other links;

"The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive. On a composite "healthy lives" score, which includes deaths among infants and patients who would have survived had they received timely and effective healthcare, the UK came 10th. The authors say that the healthcare system cannot be solely blamed for this issue, which is strongly influenced by social and economic factors."
Source

but still, the UK came first out of the 11 countries in eight of the 11 measures of care the authors looked at and the 1 'black mark' against the UK is "strongly influenced by social and economic factors"

Overall, I'd say keep the NHS payment model like it is, just reform the layers of management.

[sasguru]

Worth noting that if you care to keep reading and follow other links;

"The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive. On a composite "healthy lives" score, which includes deaths among infants and patients who would have survived had they received timely and effective healthcare, the UK came 10th. The authors say that the healthcare system cannot be solely blamed for this issue, which is strongly influenced by social and economic factors."
Source

but still, the UK came first out of the 11 countries in eight of the 11 measures of care the authors looked at and the 1 'black mark' against the UK is "strongly influenced by social and economic factors"

Overall, I'd say keep the NHS payment model like it is, just reform the layers of management.

So you're basing your conclusions on the one study (by a left-leaning think tank with an anti-US system bias) that rates the NHS top.
And even that study says in terms of "health outcomes" the UK isn't that good?
Health Outcomes are what matter, but it's typical of the left to ignore reality.
Got any other studies that back that up?
Ever heard of meta-analysis?
Care to comment on the poor NHS cancer survival rates that are found in study after study?
Like I said we have enough imbeciles on this forum.

[northernladyuk]

Priti Patel calls for May to slash spending and regulations after Brexit - Business Insider

If these ideas lead to the abolition of central funding for the NHS and the adoption of European-style private-public partnership, insurance-based health systems which have much better health outcomes, then something good may come of Brexit after all.

The NHS is probably too much of a political sacred cow to make this kind of change, and it's hard to see that the Tories have the political capital and stomach for this scale of structural change.

The really tough challenge (aka ticking bomb) is the aging population. The age profile for 2040 / 50 is scary, and will be worse if immigration is slowed down significantly. Social care and the interface between social care and healthcare (particularly long-term nursing care) are big areas that need to be addressed, and there is probably the potential (including the political potential) to put in place a compulsory insurance scheme (anyone remember National Insurance?) to fund this.

Another challenge (aka ticking bomb) is effective healthy living promotion. Smoking levels are coming down, but obesity levels are going up. Not sure what the answer is here, but there is a need to prevent unhealthy lifestyle related disease as much as possible, rather than rely on treating disease effectively as the numbers continue ti increase.

I'm not a health economist, just someone who has always worked in the area, so other opinions are available.

[sasguru]

The NHS is probably too much of a political sacred cow to make this kind of change, and it's hard to see that the Tories have the political capital and stomach for this scale of structural change.

The really tough challenge (aka ticking bomb) is the aging population. The age profile for 2040 / 50 is scary, and will be worse if immigration is slowed down significantly. Social care and the interface between social care and healthcare (particularly long-term nursing care) are big areas that need to be addressed, and there is probably the potential (including the political potential) to put in place a compulsory insurance scheme (anyone remember National Insurance?) to fund this.

Another challenge (aka ticking bomb) is effective healthy living promotion. Smoking levels are coming down, but obesity levels are going up. Not sure what the answer is here, but there is a need to prevent unhealthy lifestyle related disease as much as possible, rather than rely on treating disease effectively as the numbers continue ti increase.

I'm not a health economist, just someone who has always worked in the area, so other opinions are available.

I work in the HEOR space with health economists, epi people etc.
There is almost uniform acceptance that the NHS is unsustainable in its present form in the long term, for the reasons you describe.

[Bean]

So you're basing your conclusions on the one study (by a left-leaning think tank with an anti-US system bias) that rates the NHS top.
And even that study says in terms of "health outcomes" the UK isn't that good?

No, my conclusion is adaptable to new evidence, of which, plenty is and has become available over the years.
See below about influencing factors....

Health Outcomes are what matter, but it's typical of the left to ignore reality.

Erm, talking of ignoring, maybe you missed;

"The authors say that the healthcare system cannot be solely blamed for this issue, which is strongly influenced by social and economic factors."" - I'm not ignoring, I'm taking into account what the report authors say about strongly influencing factors.

Got any other studies that back that up?

Back what up? My opinion on the payment model of the NHS staying the same [no], or the UK having the best healthcare?

Ever heard of meta-analysis?

Yes. Although by using the WHO data - I'd say that's fairly decent, wouldn't you?

Care to comment on the poor NHS cancer survival rates that are found in study after study?

Not the worst, not the best;
Worldwide cancer mortality statistics | Cancer Research UK

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/rese.../concord-2.htm

Like I said we have enough imbeciles on this forum.

You prove it everyday that you post. HTH

[sasguru]

blah blah wibble wibble

Like all cretins you keep digging.
Fact is the NHS is mid-to-low table among comparable countries.
And unsustainable in its present form of funding, as will become apparent in a few years.

[Bean]

Like all cretins you keep digging.
Fact is the NHS is mid-to-low table among comparable countries.*
And unsustainable in its present form of funding, as will become apparent in a few years.

Who is ignoring stuff now?
Thanks for the ad-hominem

*citation required

Neither Lab nor Con have the political capital or will necessary to change the funding model. The structure/make-up of the NHS can be changed.

No amount of gnashing your teeth, wailing, or calling people cretins will change that, but as ever HTH BIDI

[sasguru]

Who is ignoring stuff now?
Thanks for the ad-hominem

*citation required

Neither Lab nor Con have the political capital or will necessary to change the funding model. The structure/make-up of the NHS can be changed.

No amount of gnashing your teeth, wailing, or calling people cretins will change that, but as ever HTH BIDI

I agree that the funding model will not be changed voluntarily, because the majority of people in this country are thick.
So it will bumble along to the final crisis, while slowly bankrupting the country.
If you really want to educate yourself rather than spouting complete tosh, knock youself out:


https://iea.org.uk/media/commonwealt...alth-outcomes/

NHS care 'among the worst in Europe' due to poor investment

https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/healt...-below-average

https://www.sochealth.co.uk/2015/01/...isons-say-nhs/

The NHS is world class – if you ignore its woeful outcomes | City A.M.

NHS is 'worse than healthcare in Ireland, Spain and Slovenia' in new global ranking