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  1. #1

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    jungleboogy is too good to be a permie


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    Default Professional Working Day

    I always ask for my contract to refer to 'professional working day' rather than specified hours. I believe this helps with IR35 but also provides flexibility in setting my daily working hours, hence better work life balance. From a client perspective I can flex up and down as necessary depending on deadlines etc.

    However, an agent refused to amend the contract and insisted the client requires a set 8hr day. I said I can't work to those restrictions but will meet in the middle and agree to a 40hr week. They said I was being unreasonable and short sighted in refusing to sign the contract if the 8hrs per day wording wasn't removed. Anyone else had these issues ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jungleboogy View Post
    I always ask for my contract to refer to 'professional working day' rather than specified hours. I believe this helps with IR35 but also provides flexibility in setting my daily working hours, hence better work life balance. From a client perspective I can flex up and down as necessary depending on deadlines etc.

    However, an agent refused to amend the contract and insisted the client requires a set 8hr day. I said I can't work to those restrictions but will meet in the middle and agree to a 40hr week. They said I was being unreasonable and short sighted in refusing to sign the contract if the 8hrs per day wording wasn't removed. Anyone else had these issues ?
    No.

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    You are a supplier so have to meet the clients needs. Sometimes they are totally inflexible, it happens. Sometimes the agents don't have a clue and stick to their guns for no apparent reason, it happens.

    Question is how much do you want the gig. If you don't like their terms you move on.

    Personally I'd have accepted, got on site delivered hard for a couple of weeks and then when I've prove myself I could negotiate what I want.

    Demanding flexibility before you've even started then yes, I'd think you are being unreasonable. The next guy won't have an issue.
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    PS. You are wrong about the IR35 aspect. Adhering to clients requirements has very little to do with IR35 and more to do with professional courtesy. Minor flag at best and certainly not enough to lose a gig over.
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    Default Professional Working Day

    I find that flexibility is often still there even with the '8 hours a day' clause. I also like the protection it gives from being expected to work a regular 8+ hour day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    I find that flexibility is often still there even with the '8 hours a day' clause. I also like the protection it gives from being expected to work a regular 8+ hour day.
    I was thinking those two points. Do a couple of months, show them what you are made of, and generally they are incredibly flexible and reasonable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jungleboogy View Post
    I always ask for my contract to refer to 'professional working day' rather than specified hours. I believe this helps with IR35 but also provides flexibility in setting my daily working hours, hence better work life balance. From a client perspective I can flex up and down as necessary depending on deadlines etc.

    However, an agent refused to amend the contract and insisted the client requires a set 8hr day. I said I can't work to those restrictions but will meet in the middle and agree to a 40hr week. They said I was being unreasonable and short sighted in refusing to sign the contract if the 8hrs per day wording wasn't removed. Anyone else had these issues ?
    I had 9-5 stated in a contract but I would interpret this as being the core hours to fit in with the demands of the project team.

    I didn't and wouldn't get hung up about it.
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    I guess from my point of view I contract so I can have control over how I deliver my services. You don't ask a plumber to commit to a set no. of hours a day so why should it be any different in IT. It's a new world, people can work remotely 24/7, hotdesk etc. Companies need to be dragged into a new way of thinking and at the end of the day if we arent' a good fit I'm prepared to walk away from a contract rather than bend over backwards to fit in with an outdated philosophy. Just my opinion, appreciate most people would just sign whatever is put in front of them and be grateful for the gig etc. but don't see why we should conform with all the power lying with the client / agent.

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    You are a supplier so have to meet the clients needs. Sometimes they are totally inflexible, it happens. Sometimes the agents don't have a clue and stick to their guns for no apparent reason, it happens.

    Question is how much do you want the gig. If you don't like their terms you move on.

    Personally I'd have accepted, got on site delivered hard for a couple of weeks and then when I've prove myself I could negotiate what I want.

    Demanding flexibility before you've even started then yes, I'd think you are being unreasonable. The next guy won't have an issue.

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    There are too many generalisations in this really but I can see what you are saying so for discussion..
    I guess from my point of view I contract so I can have control over how I deliver my services.
    Indeed but you are delivering to paying clients so they are ultimately in control. You do have the choice to take the gig if you don't like it but to turn down work just to stick to your principles on something like this is a bit odd.
    You don't ask a plumber to commit to a set no. of hours a day so why should it be any different in IT.
    Firstly comparing us to plumbers doesn't really work and secondly you can if you want. If there are constraints then you make them work to fit. He may have to be there when you leave in a morning and you don't want him there when you get back then you can ask him. He can decide whether he complies or doesn't get the gig.

    It's a new world, people can work remotely 24/7, hotdesk etc. Companies need to be dragged into a new way of thinking and at the end of the day if we arent' a good fit I'm prepared to walk away from a contract rather than bend over backwards to fit in with an outdated philosophy. Just my opinion, appreciate most people would just sign whatever is put in front of them and be grateful for the gig etc. but don't see why we should conform with all the power lying with the client / agent.
    That's very nice but sometimes that's the way it is. You don't even know the situation here. You are just going off what the agent is saying. I'll bet it's not like that when you hit the client site and you've gotten all hot and bothered over nothing.

    Don't forget we are in a supplier/client relationship as well. It's not equal and as they are paying then they do have a certain amount of position power.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 17th July 2017 at 00:02.
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    Appreciate your take on it, we can agree to disagree. Maybe it's time I retired from this industry lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    There are too many generalisations in this really but I can see what you are saying so for discussion..
    Indeed but you are delivering to paying clients so they are ultimately in control. You do have the choice to take the gig if you don't like it but to turn down work just to stick to your principles on something like this is a bit odd.


    Firstly comparing us to plumbers doesn't really work and secondly you can if you want. If there are constraints then you make them work to fit. He may have to be there when you leave in a morning and you don't want him there when you get back then you can ask him. He can decide whether he complies or doesn't get the gig.



    That's very nice but sometimes that's the way it is. You don't even know the situation here. You are just going off what the agent is saying. I'll bet it's not like that when you hit the client site and you've gotten all hot and bothered over nothing.

    Don't forget we are in a supplier/client relationship as well. It's not equal and as they are paying then they do have a certain amount of position power.

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