Charlie Gard

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

A sad but predictable end. I don't think there was ever any realistic chance of his situation improving so it's a shame to see people now spin this as all being GOSH's fault.

Hopefully now the grief vultures who have latched on to this story on both sides of the pond, particularly the *****s sending abuse and threats to GOSH staff can now all **** off.

[sasguru]

Awful situation all round. I do feel a little emotionally close to this one - after discovering Williams heart defects we did have to have the "going forward" conversation at the post 24-week mark. And I must admit, the pics of Charlie on life support are a little uncomfortably close to my own pics. Obviously still a million miles apart from what they're going through, but I definitely discovered some emotions I didn't know I had and I witnessed some events that I could have done without tbh.

My take on it hasn't massively changed since day one:

Parents - nothing but up-most sympathy for them. I think they're wrong/misguided, but I completely get why they're doing what they're doing. I thoroughly believe for the most part they're being utterly taken advantage of by people willing to capitalise on their desperation and devotion to finding answers which simply do not exist.

UK Doctors & Courts - appear to be trying to make an honest and genuine medical case that it be best he left to die. Given that they're by far the experts and that the courts, having seen all the corresponding evidence, are upholding their view I find it very hard to argue against it.

GOSH - One of the best children's hospitals in the world and, on the assumption it's anything like Birmingham, filled with utterly dedicated staff. I'm pretty ****ed off that they're being dragged through the mud over this. Having the debate is one thing, but people slagging off the hospital can go **** themselves. If anyone thinks that the staff there aren't anything but utterly gutted about the situation then they simply haven't a clue. How anyone can work in PICU, I really have no idea to frank - one of our nurses did admit she was desperately going to get back to adult ICU, simply because because the downs in the ups & downs were just too much in paediatrics.

Charlie - a child, who is likely in pain. Not a lab experiment, not a test subject, but a very real child. Essentially non-existent chance of recovery.

US Doctors - appear to be doing little more than muddy the waters with unknown quantities. No proven medicine and, even if what they propose miraculously works, little chance of any real tangible improvement for Charlie. Already forced to admit that they were not aware of how severe his condition is.

The Pope, Trump etc - Need to settle the **** down. Scoring political and personal points based on the life and suffering of a child. Completely useless comments and, again, capitalising on someones suffering. I'm also not quite grasping this "playing God" and "killing" argument - the entire point is that we are artificially keeping him alive with technology. These arguments are not helpful and simply detract from the realities of the situation.

What I don't really have right now, is the answer. GOSH are in a seriously lose lose situation - nobody there is going to do this without the parents present and compliant. I suspect the hope was a quiet resignation on their parts and to then get it over with.

Now, even if we overlook the issues with the treatment (The fact he's now becoming a lab rat, unknown side effects etc) - what next? It isn't going to work, anyone with a clue knows this. So what next - let the next Doctor in line have a crack? Fly him to India and see a spirit man? Carry him up a mountain to see a monk?

There's no way the parents are going to let this go after trying to a round of drugs and I do sincerely believe there are fates worse than death. To my mind, the only reasonable and humane course of action is to let him die.

The only post that nails this issue. Kudos to you Vwdan, its a salutary lesson to me that in spite of the numerous cretins on this board, there is at least one genuine, highly intelligent human being.

[darmstadt]

Oh yes they are.

Living proof that they haven't

[northernladyuk]

Well the treatment may have worked early on, but it's too late now with all this legal dithering.

There is no evidence base that this is the case.

[SueEllen]

Well the treatment may have worked early on, but it's too late now with all this legal dithering.

The state sometimes needs to protect people from themselves and also protect children from the wishes of their parents if there is a risk of harm.

In this case there was never any proof that the treatment would have a chance of working as it hadn't been trialled on any other animal let alone human.

While everyone hears of clinical trials and experimental treatments on people with serious conditions and may actually know some people personally where it has worked, if you investigate further you find that the drugs/treatment is either similar to another one that has been used or the drugs have been tested in labs on animals models.

[FrontEnder]

There is no evidence base that this is the case.

And to add to that, all this "legal dithering" was started long after there was any hope for the poor lad.

I encourage everyone to read the full statement from great ormond street :

Latest statement on GOSH patient Charlie Gard | Great Ormond Street Hospital

They did look at the possibility of treating him, but then he had a series of seizures around December that meant his condition and brain function seriously deteriorated. It's at that point they decided that he was beyond help.

Legal procedings were necessary because his parents refused to accept GOSH hospitals prognosis. Which is fair enough, but they were strung along by a doctor in the states who hadn't examined Charlie or even bothered to look at the scans and evidence that GOSH sent him. They were given false hope by him and therefore reason to question GOSH. All this could have been avoided if that doctor had looked at things properly form the start.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

Unfortunately many people have already made their mind up about GOSH and aren't interested in listening to facts from the horses mouth. They think GOSH and the government are evil child killers and that they are more qualified to diagnose the poor child's prognosis than qualified Doctors, because it's 2017 and we are living in a "post-expert" age.

[BrilloPad]

Charlie Gard parents announce death of 'beautiful boy' - BBC News

Will this see another princess diana outpouring of grief?

[eek]

Charlie Gard parents announce death of 'beautiful boy' - BBC News

Will this see another princess diana outpouring of grief?

Only to the extent the suffering that child has been forced to suffer (by his parents) has finished..

[northernladyuk]

Only to the extent the suffering that child has been forced to suffer (by his parents) has finished..

Steady on. Was he suffering? Maybe a bit of decorum would be nice.