London Tower Block Inferno

[Lost It]

I disagree with that. Eg. If you ask a tyre fitter to fit a set of bald (or slick racing tyres) to your car, he would refuse to do so. He knows he would be liable for the consequences.

Exactly my point. They would have installed what they were told to install. The bean counters would not have seen or cared about the benefits of the fire retardent material, they don't look that deeply. So the bean counters would have said "That's £5k cheaper. Put that on. That's 5k saved. Aren't we smart?"

I deal with this crap every day. that's why the company my company contracts to's H&S department like me. I question everything and use my experience to over rule the bean counters on many occasions. Fire doors, scaffold designs, safe materials, you name it.

[Paddy]

Exactly my point. They would have installed what they were t0old to install. The bean counters would not have seen or cared about the benefits of the fire retardent material, they don't look that deeply. So the bean counters would have said "That's £5k cheaper. Put that on. That's 5k saved. Aren't we smart?"

I deal with this crap every day. that's why the company my company contracts to's H&S department like me. I question everything and use my experience to over rule the bean counters on many occasions. Fire doors, scaffold designs, safe materials, you name it.

Reminds me of client co some years ago. There was a solvent-like smell coming through the air-con. An email from H&S stated that work was being done on the roof but the contractors have assured us that odour is harmless.

I replied back and asked for the name of the chemical used; a day later I had a reply. I then googled the chemical to find out that it was highly toxic and it should never be breathed in. I send the info back to H&S, despite repeated emails they never replied after that. Do nothing, the problem will go away.

[darmstadt]

Indeed it might have been some use if the EU had banned the cladding like the Germans & US had.

Though it seems that the stuff that had been used was even below that minimum standard. You would have thought the EU had rules about manufacturing & or importing inflammable building materials across its member states as a basic concept.

any other bremainer bull to follow?

Sorry, just Brexit bull...

[Lost It]

Reminds me of client co some years ago. There was a solvent-like smell coming through the air-con. An email from H&S stated that work was being done on the roof but the contractors have assured us that odour is harmless.

I replied back and asked for the name of the chemical used; a day later I had a reply. I then googled the chemical to find out that it was highly toxic and it should never be breathed in. I send the info back to H&S, despite repeated emails they never replied after that. Do nothing, the problem will go away.

Few years ago now...

My most significant one: I arrived on a site at a "School", and found two guys wearing shorts, no face masks, trainers, T shirts inside the entrance ladelling some stuff onto the floor that had an odour that made my eyes water. So. They don't know me, I don't know them, but I asked them who they were and what where they doing, (I needed to know if they worked for us) and was met with "WTF has it got to do with you who we are and who we are working for?". Now if you really want to piss off a Construction site manager, that is exactly the way to do it....

I'm not a big guy, but I do have an "Attack dog mode" apparently. Went into the office, asked the guys there if these workers were anything to do with us and it turns out they were. So I told one of the office guys to go over, stop the work, get their RAMS out and bring them all to me. Not the ideal first day. Not the best way to discover the team onsite are not really on top of the game...

Well. The RAMS were a shambles, and again I got the "We are on a price, we do this all the time, dunno what the fuss is about" crap from the stroppy one of the two. So I explained who I was, what my "job" is and asked them if they had read their Risk assesssments and method statements and where did it say they didn't need safety equipment and where is the COSHH statement for the stuff they are using.. Told them they needed to stop work until the RAMS are right.. Mr Stroppy goes off on one again... "I'm on a price, why can't you keep your nose out and let us get on with it, no-one else has said anything" the usual bull.

Well. No COSHH statement. Just a Material Safety data sheet. So I started reading this.

Right. First block: "This is a sensitising agent". Symbol, the lot. Asked Mr Stroppy if he knew what this meant? Nope... (Basically you might be able to use it for ages, then one day it will effect you, skin conditions, breathing difficulties etc.) But then he tells me "I've been using this for years, never bothered me, but some people get skin rashes as soon as the lid comes off". I don't think this guy was high on the Darwin scale...

Next sentence: "This material could cause temporary impotence". As soon as I said that his "Quiet mate" exploded. Proper tantrum, shouting, threatening to kill people, wanted to strangle his mate. Quite scary given the circumstances, one of the people outside our offices came in to see what was going off... Scary as well if I'm honest, he was carrying...

Turns out the quiet one and his partner had been trying for a kid for 5 years and couldn't understand why it hadn't happened. Had reached the stage of blaming each other. I learned a few new curses that day. He quit immediately. Phoned the boss of the company, tulip's him for a good 3 minutes...

So. This stuff is being used in a SCHOOL ENTRANCE. I called our H&S, got them to site, informed the client, went through the whole near miss procedure manual, emptied the premises until the stuff cured. HSE involved....

It was on an army base... That company doesn't work for us now, and there might be some claims going on... Two of the people in the office at the time don't work for us either. The one that signed the RAMS off, and the one who was suppposed to be supervising. Apparently he spent most of his time on Facefook. Our H&S removed them, and I suppose I got the blame for them losing their jobs?.

But the good thing is, the quiet one came back and apologised, and thanked us for what we had found out. Sometimes people just don't realise what they are messing with.

Post Script: When we went deeper into this, it turned out there was a cheaper, non volatile, water based material that could have been used (and was used to complete the job). So why weren't they using it?

Because the Architect had specified they used the former material, because he always specified it.

Like I've said many times. Architects are failed artists and really should be held accountable for the decisions they make.

The Upside? I got my last task at IMechE because of a very loose connection between the project manager on the job years ago and the one running the IMechE one.

[original PM]

Sorry, just Brexit bull...

Indeed and anyone who disagrees will simply disappear overnight.

[meridian]

Indeed it might have been some use if the UK had banned the cladding like the Germans & US had.

Though it seems that the stuff that had been used was even below that minimum standard. You would have thought the UK had rules about manufacturing & or installing inflammable building materials across its citizen's homes as a basic concept.

any other bremainer bull to follow?

FTFY.

[SueEllen]

Reminds me of client co some years ago. There was a solvent-like smell coming through the air-con. An email from H&S stated that work was being done on the roof but the contractors have assured us that odour is harmless.

I replied back and asked for the name of the chemical used; a day later I had a reply. I then googled the chemical to find out that it was highly toxic and it should never be breathed in. I send the info back to H&S, despite repeated emails they never replied after that. Do nothing, the problem will go away.

tulip client.

Had the same problem at a client years ago and because I knew of various health issues of people I was working near I chased it up. One of them was actually starting to feel sick.

Eventually I was told it was facilities management who dealt with it so I contacted them.

The Facilities manager then came around later that afternoon and stated he had stopped the contractors using the chemical.

Apparently I wasn't the only one who had complained but because I mentioned health issues and someone starting to feel unwell he had to investigate.

Was never told what the chemical was....

[BrilloPad]

John McDonnell: Grenfell victims 'murdered by political decisions' - BBC News

So they were murdered by political decisions? Like the government 1997-2010?

Tories need to get their act together or things will really get bad.

[Halo Jones]

Because the Architect had specified they used the former material, because he always specified it.

Like I've said many times. Architects are failed artists and really should be held accountable for the decisions they make.

Oh gods yes

[shaunbhoy]

Reminds me of client co some years ago. There was a solvent-like smell coming through the air-con. An email from H&S stated that work was being done on the roof but the contractors have assured us that odour is harmless.

I replied back and asked for the name of the chemical used; a day later I had a reply. I then googled the chemical to find out that it was highly toxic and it should never be breathed in. I send the info back to H&S, despite repeated emails they never replied after that. Do nothing, the problem will go away.

Tragic. Perhaps you could retrospectively sue them for your spectacular dullness, or was that blatantly evident before your spell with them?