We told you so!

[squarepeg]

It probably a bit stupid asking a serious question in General, but why did so many Poles choose to come to the UK? Other countries (Ireland and Spain, for example) also received huge amounts of EU money to improve their infrastructure and boost their economy for the collective good, but nowhere near as many moved here.

They wanted to go to Germany, but Germany blocked access to its labour market for 10 years if I remember correctly. It also had a lot to do with the fact that GBP was very strong against the Polish Zloty, English is fairly easy to learn, but most importantly they came because they were actively recruited, the Job Centres had leaflets in Polish, the UK government site was at the time translated into Polish and there was a massive drive to bring as many Poles into the UK as possible. They were wanted and welcome, which is why they don't understand why they are are not welcome now. (Or at least that's how they feel.)

[vetran]

They wanted to go to Germany, but Germany blocked access to its labour market for 10 years if I remember correctly. It also had a lot to do with the fact that GBP was very strong against the Polish Zloty, English is fairly easy to learn, but most importantly they came because they were actively recruited, the Job Centres had leaflets in Polish, the UK government site was at the time translated into Polish and there was a massive drive to bring as many Poles into the UK as possible. They were wanted and welcome, which is why they don't understand why they are are not welcome now. (Or at least that's how they feel.)

They were wanted by the British government to keep wages low as part of No more boom & bust. They were earning huge salaries (compared to Poland) for clearing tables they would be stupid not to come.

The UK citizens who were affected by this were less keen. It has nothing to do with the population liking or disliking the Polish.

The point you are missing is that they are two different things. The UK government used both the public & the Poles.

[squarepeg]

They were wanted by the British government to keep wages low as part of No more boom & bust. They were earning huge salaries (compared to Poland) for clearing tables they would be stupid not to come.

The UK citizens who were affected by this were less keen. It has nothing to do with the population liking or disliking the Polish.

The point you are missing is that they are two different things. The UK government used both the public & the Poles.

Not just to clear tables, pick up fruit, or work as builders and roofers. They are in every trade, including NHS and IT. They were told that they had all rights, except the right to vote in GE or referendums. There were no restrictions on purchases of properties, access to mortgages, loans, or other forms of credit. So they took advantage of them. They now live in uncertainty and fear that they will be sent back by the Home Office and that they will loose the roofs over their heads and on top of that they will be unable to service their financial obligations. This is the real problem nobody wants to talk about. And it concerns not just Poles, but all EU nationals. How do you think banks will deal with this? By selling their unpaid loans to debt collection agencies in Europe and destroying the lives of those people forever? Is this the justice (revenge?) the Brexiters want? Let's have a honest conversation about how those who voted for Brexit propose to deal with that problem, shall we? Because that's a discussion worth having, not constantly going back and blaming the gummint, the Poles, or the EU. The politicians and the big businesses will be OK, but what about the people who have for all intents and purposes become integrated with the British society and economy?

The benefits claimants and seasonal workers will be easy to get rid of and they will quickly leave. Those who have integrated themselves into the British society by working, investing, and borrowing just like other Brits are going to be hit the hardest.

Blaming the EU for the unregulated status of EU nationals (and Brits on the continent) is no longer an acceptable excuse. If Brexiters had a plan, they should have invoked article 50 within 30 days of the referendum and sent the proposals for withdrawal to Brussels on the same day. That would put pressure on dealing with those issues on the EU and yes, you would not only have the right to bitch all you want about it, but the EU nationals in Britain and their families abroad would join you by putting pressure on their politicians and MEPs. But that is unfathomable, because Brexit means Brexit.

Brexiters preferred to allow the media to scare the living daylights out of people and waste time while they were getting high on ideas for creating registers of foreign workers and making companies explain themselves why they employed foreigners. It took almost a year to invoke Article 50 and then the government decides to waste even more time by holding a GE. Because there never was a plan for Brexit. I doubt there is one now.

Brexit will mess with the lives of those EU nationals who positively contribute to the British society. But nobody cares about them, no political party wants to admit that this is wrong and needs to be dealt with in the right way. If the British government wanted to stick it to the EU, they would guarantee the rights of the EU nationals in the UK last year and stop all payments to the EU unless the rights of the British nationals have been guaranteed. That "£350 million per week" could be withheld as "emergency money to cover the cost of helping the Brits re-partiating to Britain after the EU kicks them out." That's how you play the grown-up game of politics.

[shaunbhoy]

Not just to clear tables, pick up fruit, or work as builders and roofers. They are in every trade, including NHS and IT. They were told that they had all rights, except the right to vote in GE or referendums. There were no restrictions on purchases of properties, access to mortgages, loans, or other forms of credit. So they took advantage of them. They now live in uncertainty and fear that they will be sent back by the Home Office and that they will loose the roofs over their heads and on top of that they will be unable to service their financial obligations. This is the real problem nobody wants to talk about. And it concerns not just Poles, but all EU nationals. How do you think banks will deal with this? By selling their unpaid loans to debt collection agencies in Europe and destroying the lives of those people forever? Is this the justice (revenge?) the Brexiters want? Let's have a honest conversation about how those who voted for Brexit propose to deal with that problem, shall we? Because that's a discussion worth having, not constantly going back and blaming the gummint, the Poles, or the EU. The politicians and the big businesses will be OK, but what about the people who have for all intents and purposes become integrated with the British society and economy?

The benefits claimants and seasonal workers will be easy to get rid of and they will quickly leave. Those who have integrated themselves into the British society by working, investing, and borrowing just like other Brits are going to be hit the hardest.

Blaming the EU for the unregulated status of EU nationals (and Brits on the continent) is no longer an acceptable excuse. If Brexiters had a plan, they should have invoked article 50 within 30 days of the referendum and sent the proposals for withdrawal to Brussels on the same day. That would put pressure on dealing with those issues on the EU and yes, you would not only have the right to bitch all you want about it, but the EU nationals in Britain and their families abroad would join you by putting pressure on their politicians and MEPs. But that is unfathomable, because Brexit means Brexit.

Brexiters preferred to allow the media to scare the living daylights out of people and waste time while they were getting high on ideas for creating registers of foreign workers and making companies explain themselves why they employed foreigners. It took almost a year to invoke Article 50 and then the government decides to waste even more time by holding a GE. Because there never was a plan for Brexit. I doubt there is one now.

Brexit will mess with the lives of those EU nationals who positively contribute to the British society. But nobody cares about them, no political party wants to admit that this is wrong and needs to be dealt with in the right way. If the British government wanted to stick it to the EU, they would guarantee the rights of the EU nationals in the UK last year and stop all payments to the EU unless the rights of the British nationals have been guaranteed. That "£350 million per week" could be withheld as "emergency money to cover the cost of helping the Brits re-partiating to Britain after the EU kicks them out." That's how you play the grown-up game of politics.

You really are a bit hysterical aren't you? Are you on any medication?

But calm down, the status of EU nationals and British expats will be resolved pretty quickly once negotiations begin in earnest.

Then you can pick something else to get irrationally vexed over as you seem unhealthily skittish.

HTH

[SueEllen]

Not just to clear tables, pick up fruit, or work as builders and roofers. They are in every trade, including NHS and IT. They were told that they had all rights, except the right to vote in GE or referendums. There were no restrictions on purchases of properties, access to mortgages, loans, or other forms of credit. So they took advantage of them. They now live in uncertainty and fear that they will be sent back by the Home Office and that they will loose the roofs over their heads and on top of that they will be unable to service their financial obligations. This is the real problem nobody wants to talk about. And it concerns not just Poles, but all EU nationals. How do you think banks will deal with this? By selling their unpaid loans to debt collection agencies in Europe and destroying the lives of those people forever? Is this the justice (revenge?) the Brexiters want? Let's have a honest conversation about how those who voted for Brexit propose to deal with that problem, shall we? Because that's a discussion worth having, not constantly going back and blaming the gummint, the Poles, or the EU. The politicians and the big businesses will be OK, but what about the people who have for all intents and purposes become integrated with the British society and economy?

The benefits claimants and seasonal workers will be easy to get rid of and they will quickly leave. Those who have integrated themselves into the British society by working, investing, and borrowing just like other Brits are going to be hit the hardest.

Blaming the EU for the unregulated status of EU nationals (and Brits on the continent) is no longer an acceptable excuse. If Brexiters had a plan, they should have invoked article 50 within 30 days of the referendum and sent the proposals for withdrawal to Brussels on the same day. That would put pressure on dealing with those issues on the EU and yes, you would not only have the right to bitch all you want about it, but the EU nationals in Britain and their families abroad would join you by putting pressure on their politicians and MEPs. But that is unfathomable, because Brexit means Brexit.

Brexiters preferred to allow the media to scare the living daylights out of people and waste time while they were getting high on ideas for creating registers of foreign workers and making companies explain themselves why they employed foreigners. It took almost a year to invoke Article 50 and then the government decides to waste even more time by holding a GE. Because there never was a plan for Brexit. I doubt there is one now.

Brexit will mess with the lives of those EU nationals who positively contribute to the British society. But nobody cares about them, no political party wants to admit that this is wrong and needs to be dealt with in the right way. If the British government wanted to stick it to the EU, they would guarantee the rights of the EU nationals in the UK last year and stop all payments to the EU unless the rights of the British nationals have been guaranteed. That "£350 million per week" could be withheld as "emergency money to cover the cost of helping the Brits re-partiating to Britain after the EU kicks them out." That's how you play the grown-up game of politics.

And marry and/or have children with British citizens - the horror of it....

[squarepeg]

You really are a bit hysterical aren't you? Are you on any medication?

But calm down, the status of EU nationals and British expats will be resolved pretty quickly once negotiations begin in earnest.

Then you can pick something else to get irrationally vexed over as you seem unhealthily skittish.

HTH

And how is it going to be resolved?

[shaunbhoy]

And how is it going to be resolved?

Through pragmatic negotiation of course.

[squarepeg]

Through pragmatic negotiation of course.

Which the UK government is not really interested in starting asap since they are happy to waste time on a pointless GE.

[tomtomagain]

Which the UK government is not really interested in starting asap since they are happy to waste time on a pointless GE.

You should have more faith.

Firstly nobody of any significance has said that the UK would be expelling EU nationals. The only scare-mongering is coming from the bitter remain side.

Of course it's unsettling. Change is.

Secondly the PM clearly made an offer to the EU prior to A50 being triggered on the subject of EU nationals. This was politely declined by the EU as they didn't want to start any formal talks prior to A50.

Thirdly. The GE isn't pointless and it won't waste any negotiation time. If May gets a bigger majority then the agreed deal is less likely to be torpedoed by disgruntled hard-Brexiters OR die-hard remainers at the last minute. It also pushes the next UK GE to 2022 - which stops the deal being weaponised in the would-have-been 2020 GE.

The bulk of all these negotiations are done by civil servants in the UK and EU. It's not like Davis, May, Junker, Tusk & Merkel are actually going to sit down and do it. The vast majority of the the work is carried out by teams of people who are in all likelihood beavering away to get to a common position. The politicians just fly in at the end for the signing and photo-op.


And finally. I know it is fashionable to portray all politicians as idiots. And undoubtedly some are. But they are just the "frontmen". There is a whole army of advisors, experts, strategists, lawyers who will work hard to get the right result for both sides.

My advice. Ignore the news for the next 18 months. It's just there to sell newspapers by pandering to their readers fears and prejudices by reporting what their readers already believe.

[northernladyuk]

You should have more faith.

In the Brexit *****?