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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFH View Post
    Are you so aggressive in your defensive because you were duped and you realise you were duped, or because you were duped and don't accept it?
    I sat on the fence beforehand, because I knew both sides were talking tulipe. The Project Fear of the pro-remain side kinda suggested they had nothing good to say about staying in the EU, therefore had to grossly exaggerate the effects of leaving. Then Juncker stuck his oar in.

    I never believed for one minute that £350m a week was coming the NHS's way - I'm fairly sure the NHS can do far better with the money it already has rather than splurging it up the wall.

    My reasons for voting to leave is because I don't believe in the EU project, I don't believe in working towards a single country called Europe. I do not believe the EU in its present form has the capacity to change. I do not believe the EU represents the UK from a political perspective.

    However, I don't believe in a hard Brexit, I don't believe we should leave the single market, I'm happy with the four freedoms. I'm happy that we should collaborate in various institutions (e.g. EASA) and of course we need to pay our fair share of that (and if we're paying to be in it, then it shouldn't be on a Read-Only basis).

    I'm not sure we should be paying to build fantastic new roads in Romania/Greece/Spain whilst they build white elephant airports and high speed rail better than we have domestically and whilst our own roads are in a state.

    The EFTA/EEA option would be the option I would have ticked if it was there. It wasn't. "We voted for a departure, but not a destination". Remaining would have meant nothing changed. I've been along the same train of thought as the Flexcit approach on the EU Referendum blog (Richard North) in that respect.

    But to go on about the bus... Both sides were guilty of some pretty hefty whoppers. Leave had the disadvantage of not actually being able to state what Leave would look like, because they would not have been in a position to implement it. The options were "status quo" or "something different" and 52% of people chose "something different", admittedly many of them with no idea what "something different" should look like.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post
    However, I don't believe in a hard Brexit, I don't believe we should leave the single market, I'm happy with the four freedoms. I'm happy that we should collaborate in various institutions (e.g. EASA) and of course we need to pay our fair share of that (and if we're paying to be in it, then it shouldn't be on a Read-Only basis).
    So what do you think about the Tory right wing coup that has taken place which makes "hard Brexit" the default position, contrary to the wishes of the majority of the UK population?
    I think the Richard North blogs are quite sensible, as a Remainer.
    "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

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  3. #23

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    The PWC report's assumption is based on high levels of immigration. It talks about the UK's "favourable" demographics.

    Author of the best seller "How to get Poor quickly"

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    The PWC report's assumption is based on high levels of immigration. It talks about the UK's "favourable" demographics.

    Someone's got to do the jobs British people don't want to do.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladyuk View Post
    Someone's got to do the jobs British people don't want to do.
    Bollox! You're just parroting one of the standard lines British politicians use to justify allowing excessive immigration for completely different reasons such as gratitude votes and trying to maintain the UK's GDP by the spurious means of increasing the population to allow Government spending on benefits to increase.
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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladyuk View Post
    Someone's got to do the jobs British people don't want to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by OwlHoot View Post
    Bollox! You're just parroting one of the standard lines British politicians use to justify allowing excessive immigration for completely different reasons such as gratitude votes and trying to maintain the UK's GDP by the spurious means of increasing the population to allow Government spending on benefits to increase.
    And there I was thinking that it was fairly true. I mean who is going to get up at 5 in the morning and then spend 8 hours pulling guts out of chickens or at the crack of dawn pulling potatoes out of the ground which, having done it, is back breaking. I doubt very much today's pampered youth or sit at home layabouts are? So who is? How about you, instead of having a nice income and lifestyle which allows you to not bother about where those items you bought came from and who had to work selflessly to provide them for you, go and do your bit for your country then publicise it and maybe others will join you
    If people like Rupert Murdoch, Nigel Farage, George Galloway, Nick Griffin and Marine Le Pen want Britain to leave the EU. Where does that put you?

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by darmstadt View Post
    And there I was thinking that it was fairly true. I mean who is going to get up at 5 in the morning and then spend 8 hours pulling guts out of chickens or at the crack of dawn pulling potatoes out of the ground which, having done it, is back breaking. I doubt very much today's pampered youth or sit at home layabouts are? ...
    If the money was right, and the income tax structure not so imposing on low wages, and a flat rate income benefit for all introduced, so that work was genuinely worth it to make significant extra cash, then plenty of people would, well more anyway I imagine.

    Commuting costs are an issue also. I mean it isn't practical to earn £50 a day picking spuds if the return fare or petrol costs £20.
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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    So what do you think about the Tory right wing coup that has taken place which makes "hard Brexit" the default position, contrary to the wishes of the majority of the UK population?
    I think it is dreadful, especially in the light of tonight's news that MPs will be given a 'meaningful' vote on the deal struck with the EU at the end of negotiations, in the sense that the vote will be 'this deal, or no deal' with no option to head for a softer deal. Turkeys will be offered the chance to vote between christmas or a one way ticket to the Birds Eye factory.

    But then I've never been a fan of a Tory government and could never bring myself to vote for them.

    Still a leaver though, as I disagree with remaining on the EU path we were on. The EU project was going too fast - I mean FFS look at the acrimony between Scotland and England (albeit fuelled by the SNP) and that union was established 310 years ago. But... if I had the opportunity to vote in a future referendum, if the options were Remain or Hard Brexit, I would choose remain. If the options were Remain or EFTA/EEA, I would choose EFTA/EEA.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post
    I think it is dreadful, especially in the light of tonight's news that MPs will be given a 'meaningful' vote on the deal struck with the EU at the end of negotiations, in the sense that the vote will be 'this deal, or no deal' with no option to head for a softer deal. Turkeys will be offered the chance to vote between christmas or a one way ticket to the Birds Eye factory.

    But then I've never been a fan of a Tory government and could never bring myself to vote for them.

    Still a leaver though, as I disagree with remaining on the EU path we were on. The EU project was going too fast - I mean FFS look at the acrimony between Scotland and England (albeit fuelled by the SNP) and that union was established 310 years ago. But... if I had the opportunity to vote in a future referendum, if the options were Remain or Hard Brexit, I would choose remain. If the options were Remain or EFTA/EEA, I would choose EFTA/EEA.
    Nice to find a reasonable Leaver for a change.
    "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by darmstadt View Post
    And there I was thinking that it was fairly true. I mean who is going to get up at 5 in the morning and then spend 8 hours pulling guts out of chickens or at the crack of dawn pulling potatoes out of the ground which, having done it, is back breaking. I doubt very much today's pampered youth or sit at home layabouts are? So who is? How about you, instead of having a nice income and lifestyle which allows you to not bother about where those items you bought came from and who had to work selflessly to provide them for you, go and do your bit for your country then publicise it and maybe others will join you
    Who does these jobs in Japan? 98.5% of Japan is populated by the Japanese. They seem to have no problem producing food without "migrant" labour.
    Patiently waiting for the much publicised and feared Brexit Doom.....

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