Murky Nissan deal

[sasguru]

Funny. A few weeks ago you were wailing on this forum that FDI was vital to the economy and was threatened by BREXIT.

Now that some companies ( with a little persuading from HM Gov ) have re-affirmed their commitment to continue investing in the UK you classify it as "Kindness of strangers" and imply it's a bad thing.

Wish you'd make your mind up.

FDI is in fact vital to the economy. That's the "kindness of strangers" (Carney's phrase) we rely on.
Where have I said it's a bad thing?
The point I was trying to make is the lack of government transparency in what they've offered to Nissan.
It seems pretty much they've assured Nissan of a non-hard Brexit.
And as the French government is a major shareholder of Nissan-Renault, whatever Ghosn has been told will go to the highest level of the French government.
You don't think that's a little absurd?

[tomtomagain]

The point I was trying to make is the lack of government transparency in what they've offered to Nissan.
It seems pretty much they've assured Nissan of a non-hard Brexit.
And as the French government is a major shareholder of Nissan-Renault, whatever Ghosn has been told will go to the highest level of the French government.
You don't think that's a little absurd?

Well not really. I doubt they've offered anything "cast-iron" probably just a few warm words about reducing corp. tax, supporting exporters, removing regulation and so on. Rather than anything BREXIT specific.

The fact that the French. Gov. is a shareholder is well known, so the PM would not say anything to Nissan that she didn't want the French government to know.

What's France's biggest issue? High unemployment, high corporation tax, over strong employee rights, lots of restrictions on business.

On the current "Ease of Doing Business" Index. The UK is in 7th place. France in 29th.

Telling Nissan that in the event of tariffs the UK would slash corp. tax to say 10% is EXACTLY what you want the French to know prior to negotiations.

The French have a massive social-state they want to protect and they "know" that the Tories would love the excuse to butcher the UK's welfare state and pass the savings on as tax cuts. 'Cos that's what Tories do right?

France's worst-case scenario is a highly business friendly UK pursuing a very aggressive set of reforms to remove regulation and the tax burden from companies.

[sasguru]

Telling Nissan that in the event of tariffs the UK would slash corp. tax to say 10% is EXACTLY what you want the French to know prior to negotiations.

The French have a massive social-state they want to protect and they "know" that the Tories would love the excuse to butcher the UK's welfare state and pass the savings on as tax cuts. 'Cos that's what Tories do right?

France's worst-case scenario is a highly business friendly UK pursuing a very aggressive set of reforms to remove regulation and the tax burden from companies.

Well not sure what the govt. told Nissan, but it ought to be in the public sphere.
Also, dream on. With British debt as it is, reducing the tax take isn't going to work, and France knows that.
Looks like the French have by far the better deal.
As the Times reported today both the UK and France now have debt at 90% of GDP (ours is rising, theirs is stable) and yet they have all these social protections for their citizens and we have zilch?
Which is the more fooked country I wonder
I'm sure plenty of Brexiters would love French-style social protection.

[tomtomagain]

Well not sure what the govt. told Nissan, but it ought to be in the public sphere.

Maybe, maybe not. But I doubt anything serious was promised.

Also, dream on. With British debt as it is, reducing the tax take isn't going to work, and France knows that.

I didn't say reducing the tax-take. I said reducing corporation tax and regulations. The government would be happy enough to increase taxes in other areas to make up any required shortfall.

Looks like the French have by far the better deal.

Unless they are one of the legion of unemployed French. Then they might have a different view.

As the Times reported today both the UK and France now have debt at 90% of GDP (ours is rising, theirs is stable) and yet they have all these social protections for their citizens and we have zilch?

Having been involved in shutting down a French company I can tell you a story about French employment protection.

Let's just say it is very, very expensive and the corporation I worked for at the time decided that they would never really consider investing in France again.

Which is the hidden downside to strong employee rights.

Which is the more fooked country I wonder

Why does either country have to be "fooked"? I don't think the UK is, or will be. I don't think France is or will be.

I don't understand why you are so desperate for things to turn out badly? You've got a very weird outlook on life.

I'm sure plenty of Brexiters would love French-style social protection.

[/QUOTE]

And plenty of remoaners too. But equally plenty of people would not.

[GB9]

Well not sure what the govt. told Nissan, but it ought to be in the public sphere.
Also, dream on. With British debt as it is, reducing the tax take isn't going to work, and France knows that.
Looks like the French have by far the better deal.
As the Times reported today both the UK and France now have debt at 90% of GDP (ours is rising, theirs is stable) and yet they have all these social protections for their citizens and we have zilch?
Which is the more fooked country I wonder
I'm sure plenty of Brexiters would love French-style social protection.

Your interpretation of what might or might not have been said strangely always fits your view that the EU is better / stronger. Ref: my other post shoing how rubbish German Q3 growth is.

[SussexSeagull]

I always assumed if Leave won that we would either join EEA or failing that EFTA. I am still of the opinion that a bespoke deal is pie in the sky and eventually we will have to settle with one of these two options.

[GB9]

I always assumed if Leave won that we would either join EEA or failing that EFTA. I am still of the opinion that a bespoke deal is pie in the sky and eventually we will have to settle with one of these two options.

Maybe but we are in a much stronger position than most. It just wouldn't surprise me if the EU Committe would rather inflict job-loss misery on its population to keep its socialist empire alive.

[SussexSeagull]

Maybe but we are in a much stronger position than most. It just wouldn't surprise me if the EU Committe would rather inflict job-loss misery on its population to keep its socialist empire alive.

Not sure it is a socialist empire (the centre right are in control) but the EU aren't going to give us an easy deal as they consider freedom of movement essential to the whole thing and can't be separated out.

[jamesbrown]

I always assumed if Leave won that we would either join EEA or failing that EFTA. I am still of the opinion that a bespoke deal is pie in the sky and eventually we will have to settle with one of these two options.

IMO, that would be nonsensical. You'd avoid the CU, and hence external tariff on goods, but we have a services economy and need the flexibility to use services regulation as a bargaining chip in non-EU trade negotiations (which must include services) if Brexit is going to make any sense. Nah, it's either full membership of the EU or leaving the CU and EEA (assuming that a sectoral approach won't work, and I don't think it will). I voted for Brexit, but I'd rather be in the EU than some fudge of the CU and EEA. It's all or nothing.

[SussexSeagull]

IMO, that would be nonsensical. You'd avoid the CU, and hence external tariff on goods, but we have a services economy and need the flexibility to use services regulation as a bargaining chip in non-EU trade negotiations (which must include services) if Brexit is going to make any sense. Nah, it's either full membership of the EU or leaving the CU and EEA (assuming that a sectoral approach won't work, and I don't think it will). I voted for Brexit, but I'd rather be in the EU than some fudge of the CU and EEA. It's all or nothing.

The simple answer as a Remain voter is I really don't have an answer as my answer was to stay in the EU but now the EU get a say in any deal so we are in the lap of the gods.