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How the USA gets rid of Trump

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    #61
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
    Not everyone does as otherwise independents wouldn't get elected.
    Independents are often an anti-party vote, so not really any different. Martin Bell stood against Neil Hamilton as an anti-sleeze candidate; Galloway was because of Iraq. Neither anything to do with the local area.

    Another broken part of the system is that if your MP happens to be say, Prime Minister, then she obviously isn't going to spend any real time on the interests of your local area. At least the US get that bit right.
    Will work inside IR35. Or for food.

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      #62
      Originally posted by VectraMan View Post
      Independents are often an anti-party vote, so not really any different. Martin Bell stood against Neil Hamilton as an anti-sleeze candidate; Galloway was because of Iraq. Neither anything to do with the local area.
      Exactly. And very few independents ever get elected anyway other than over the occasional single-issue matters.
      As has been said, half of the electorate no longer bother to vote. Of the half that do, I doubt even half of them even KNOW who their local MP actually is.
      For the most part, people vote for the Party rather than the individual.
      On local issues, as SE says, you should approach your local MP regardless of their persuasion. They are there to represent ALL constituents and not just those who voted for them.
      Yes, there are any number of ways that a PR system could be implemented poorly, but there are also ways in which it could be introduced to produce a much more representative and Democratic model than the existing one.
      Not really that worried if it upsets the larger parties, they have had it too easy for too long and the disillusionment of the populace is there for all to see (e.g.Brexit).
      Never been a fan of the Greens or UKIP, but the fact remains that they DO have significant support, so in my book it is only fair that they get some form of representation.
      “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
      “The period of the disintegration of the European Union has begun. And the first vessel to have departed is Britain”

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        #63
        Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
        We had a referendum for AV in 2011. Both Labour and the Tories were against it so the majority of the population stupidity voted against it

        We don't want true PR as by true PR you get right or left wing fascist parties holding the balance of power. You wouldn't like a party like the BNP or Momentum deciding policy.
        The problem runs deeper than this. Regardless how we choose the winner the fact remains that they end up negotiating everything with the losers to a point where most of the benefit is lost.

        The ideal system is a benevolent dictator that knows what needs to be done in the long run. Is brutal enough to remove barriers to their success and is generous enough to bribe the people that have to lose out for the greater good.

        Roads, Runways and rail is a perfect example.

        Today the only people that benefit from roads are the ones that build them and the legal representatives that fight the legal challenges against it.

        If alternatively you take the view that the runway or road is going in and there is no choice but here is a few million to the people affected sounds expensive till you add up how much you save in time and court costs.

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          #64
          Originally posted by bobspud View Post
          The problem runs deeper than this. Regardless how we choose the winner the fact remains that they end up negotiating everything with the losers to a point where most of the benefit is lost.

          The ideal system is a benevolent dictator that knows what needs to be done in the long run. Is brutal enough to remove barriers to their success and is generous enough to bribe the people that have to lose out for the greater good.

          Roads, Runways and rail is a perfect example.

          Today the only people that benefit from roads are the ones that build them and the legal representatives that fight the legal challenges against it.

          If alternatively you take the view that the runway or road is going in and there is no choice but here is a few million to the people affected sounds expensive till you add up how much you save in time and court costs.
          I'd vote for you but it sounds like you've got a 105% turnout sorted out already.
          The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by pjclarke View Post
            Actual turnout was 52.3%, (54.9% 2010, 58.2% in 2008, ).

            Uk managed 66% last year. More than 4 in 10 Americans stayed home. Whatever your sympathies, both the absolute number and the trend are no cause for celebration. I agree with Churchill.
            The US Electoral college system, which enabled Trump to gain power with a minority of votes cast, is undemocratic, a sham and a travesty.

            Apparently.
            My subconscious is annoying. It's got a mind of its own.

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              #66
              Originally posted by pjclarke View Post
              The US Electoral college system, which enabled Trump to gain power with a minority of votes cast, is undemocratic, a sham and a travesty.

              Apparently.
              If it had returned Sanders you would be playing a different tune
              Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

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                #67
                Originally posted by DodgyAgent View Post
                I am talking about the overall tyranny of the liberal left being overturned where words and phrases are taken at face value when they not intended to be (called metaphors and jokes) and where context of words is ignored.
                My subconscious is annoying. It's got a mind of its own.

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                  #68
                  Originally posted by pjclarke View Post
                  Let us not forget EU open doors immigration benefits IT contractors more than anyone

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
                    We had a referendum for AV in 2011. Both Labour and the Tories were against it so the majority of the population stupidity voted against it
                    Stupid because you don't agree with it? FPTP has worked pretty well for quite a few centuries really, don't we have one of the most stable and long-running parliamentary systems in the world?

                    Originally posted by pjclarke View Post
                    The US Electoral college system, which enabled Trump to gain power with a minority of votes cast, is undemocratic, a sham and a travesty.
                    No it isn't.

                    You cannot trust the popular vote because it panders to the EC system. In a popular-vote based system the campaigning would be performed in a totally different way and the popular vote would've been a different result to what it was. It's like trying to measure coding performance... whatever metric you employ people will play to the metric and distort the results.

                    Also, what alternative to the EC would you want in a nation where the states are so independent?
                    Originally posted by MaryPoppins
                    I'd still not breastfeed a nazi
                    Originally posted by vetran
                    Urine is quite nourishing

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                      #70


                      Is it really so hard to click a link? For the click-averse, during the 2012 US Election, when it looked like the Republicans would lose the electoral college but win the popular vote, that is, the reverse of what just happened, Trump unleashed a series of tweets denouncing the EC in the terms above.
                      Last edited by pjclarke; 18 November 2016, 14:11.
                      My subconscious is annoying. It's got a mind of its own.

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