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Brexit Economics Lesson 1 - Who has the real power in negotiations

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    #31
    Originally posted by vetran View Post
    Because the EU say so, they aren't willing to negotiate on that and a few other items which i why Cameron came back empty handed from negotiations & Brexit won. If They had negotiated and not treated us like naughty children then it would probably been a remain vote keeping the veto on ever closer union.
    Yeah I see it was written in that Act, but I still don't get why it's so important to them. It was the main reason Leave won. I thought maybe it was to avoid problems due to not having the right workforce when countries supplied services to eachother, like say the UK wants a German company to build something here - there are no trade taxes or whatever, but then in order to build it the German company needs to have some builders here for a few years. Having free movement means the workers can come here without issue.

    That's the only thing I could think of, but I'm just a simple pleb.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Rabotnik View Post
      Yeah I see it was written in that Act, but I still don't get why it's so important to them. It was the main reason Leave won. I thought maybe it was to avoid problems due to not having the right workforce when countries supplied services to eachother, like say the UK wants a German company to build something here - there are no trade taxes or whatever, but then in order to build it the German company needs to have some builders here for a few years. Having free movement means the workers can come here without issue.

      That's the only thing I could think of, but I'm just a simple pleb.
      Labour is a market, just like anything else. Contractors of all people should understand that. To have free trade of goods and services and not labour is protectionism, and I can understand why some people think protectionism is a good idea but that wasn't the principle. The principle was free trade for everything.

      This is where somebody will say they're in favour of freedom of movement of labour, but not the right for anyone to settle where they want. But the other thing contractors should understand more than anyone is that having a flexible work force is a good thing, and requiring somebody to have a job before they're allowed to move works against that.

      Why exactly are people so against migration? It's easy to say it's all prejudice, and the excuse given is always that it's about public services etc., but in reality it seems more to do with people jealously guarding what they have. It's like somebody new starts where you work but instead of taking them to the pub to welcome them you start hoarding the company paper and pens for yourself.
      Will work inside IR35. Or for food.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by NotAllThere View Post
        Idiocracy. As demonstrated here.



        It means - are you going to leave this forum?

        Vas-tu quitter ce forum?
        Wirst du dieses Online-Forum zu verlassen?

        Sorry, don't speak Italian.
        Well, I'm certainly cutting back on posting due to the lack of quality to argue with.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by vetran View Post
          Because the EU say so, they aren't willing to negotiate on that and a few other items which i why Cameron came back empty handed from negotiations & Brexit won. If They had negotiated and not treated us like naughty children then it would probably been a remain vote keeping the veto on ever closer union.
          It wasn't the EU's to sort out.

          It was up to Camoron to put in legislation to make it very difficult for anyone to claim benefits unless they had been resident for in the UK for years. Other EU countries have that legislation.
          "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Rabotnik View Post
            Thought I'd ask in here as it's probably not thread-worthy: Why is free movement always tied to free trade? I keep reading comments saying there can be no free trade without free movement but I've never read a reason why. Why can't countries just trade with each other and keep visa requirements in place? There must be some logical reason.
            Because it is the only way they can genuinely equalise standards of living across the EU.

            Over time every country will reach the lowest common denominator so rather than Spain having 50% youth unemployment and Germany 10%, they will equalise at 30% each.

            Everyone equal in the great socialist ideal.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Old Greg View Post
              They are the rules of the game. If you don't like it, join NAFTA.
              So free movement of people linked with a trade agreement.

              Sounds like a brilliant idea, surely other countries somewhere else on the planet must have thought of that? Surely? No?
              Last edited by rl4engc; 29 June 2016, 14:48.
              Originally posted by Nigel Farage MEP - 2016-06-24 04:00:00
              "I hope this victory brings down this failed project and leads us to a Europe of sovereign nation states, trading together, being friends together, cooperating together, and let's get rid of the flag, the anthem, Brussels, and all that has gone wrong."

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
                It wasn't the EU's to sort out.

                It was up to Camoron to put in legislation to make it very difficult for anyone to claim benefits unless they had been resident for in the UK for years. Other EU countries have that legislation.
                To be fair, Cameron made that bed himself by claiming they could get immigration down to the 10's of thousands.

                When that didn't work, for some reason the argument turned to it being an EU problem, rather than a UK government problem, even though more than half of net immigrants are from outside the EU and clearly up to the UK to sort out.

                The fact that the UK government can't even manage non-EU immigration shows that there will be little change if we leave the EU. Any "control" will be an illusion.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by VectraMan View Post
                  Labour is a market, just like anything else. Contractors of all people should understand that. To have free trade of goods and services and not labour is protectionism, and I can understand why some people think protectionism is a good idea but that wasn't the principle. The principle was free trade for everything.

                  This is where somebody will say they're in favour of freedom of movement of labour, but not the right for anyone to settle where they want. But the other thing contractors should understand more than anyone is that having a flexible work force is a good thing, and requiring somebody to have a job before they're allowed to move works against that.

                  Why exactly are people so against migration? It's easy to say it's all prejudice, and the excuse given is always that it's about public services etc., but in reality it seems more to do with people jealously guarding what they have. It's like somebody new starts where you work but instead of taking them to the pub to welcome them you start hoarding the company paper and pens for yourself.
                  This is a bit stark but some of it I agree with.

                  Can you not understand why people want to protect their income and standard of living though? Up against an unfair cost base and with much of the money earned by immigrants from around the world being repatriated to their country? Money leaving our economy which then decreases as a result.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    The ridiculous fact is that there are 2 million Brits in the EU and 3 million EU citizens in Britain. The difference between the two isn't that great considering how long the UK has been in the EU.

                    People of course see 3 million EU foreigners and it appears like they've been inundated and want them to go home.

                    There are millions more non-EU immigrants. The debate just went off the rails on immigration.
                    I'm alright Jack

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by GB9 View Post
                      This is a bit stark but some of it I agree with.

                      Can you not understand why people want to protect their income and standard of living though? Up against an unfair cost base and with much of the money earned by immigrants from around the world being repatriated to their country? Money leaving our economy which then decreases as a result.
                      We can either accept their workers and let them send some money back, or bribe them with more foreign aid. Either way we need to protect our interests.
                      "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

                      Comment

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