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Should politicians vote to overturn the referendum result?

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    #11
    Originally posted by Old Greg View Post
    We were never a democracy and the ruling class controls the armed forces and police.
    Don't tell the plebs!
    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

    Comment


      #12
      My hunch ( based on nothing substantial ) is that right now there is an awful lot of diplomatic work going on trying to agree a materially-different settlement for the UK.

      If, for example, the EU-Elite offered the UK an op-opt of the movement of people and allowed the introduction of a "points-based" migration system. Then the new PM could either declare that the primary objections of the British people had now been met and ignore the result, or hold a second vote and hope to win that.

      The current situation is like this : You've had a meeting in the pub with your boss and told him you're unhappy and going to resign. You've turned up on Monday morning with a resignation letter in your pocket but not handed it in. The clock does not start ticking until you hand that notice in. You cannot be forced to hand in your notice. And if your boss suddenly offered a nice pay-rise and new job title then you'd be a fool to not reconsider.

      The UK government has said "We're going to wait until the we've got a new PM to start the process". Which is a handy way of delaying for 3 months, during which time there will be frenetic activity to figure out a compromise ( and I would hope the UK gov. to get a head start on arranging trade agreements with other countries ).

      Merkel has said "There's no rush". Which lines up nicely with the UK position.

      The UK leaving the EU is a massive problem for them. It tilts the balance of power towards the French. Removes a key, market-minded ally from Germany's table AND who's tax payers are going to be expected to make up the short fall in the EU budget?

      Merkel won't want to go down in history as the Chancellor who lost the UK but kept the Greeks.

      Comment


        #13
        If it shuts up sore remainers

        Yes

        Comment


          #14
          Originally posted by Old Greg View Post
          We were never a democracy and the ruling class controls the armed forces and police.
          They've been found out then.

          But lessons worldwide: eventually the people will get so peed off they won't care about the consequences.

          Comment


            #15
            Hmmm...

            We need the single market, but they need it far more. Hence Germany's desire to keep us in Europe. However the vote was primarily for a regaining of UK sovereignty away from Brussels. So the end result could well be a free trade agreement with the EU, some modified form of freedom of movement - perhaps limits on entry with no job to go to and limits on how much family can come with you, as per the rest of the world - and the repeal of the UK laws that put EU ahead of UK legislation and justice authority. That satisfies the will of the UK voting public (bar the kiddies, the Scots and the self-interested that is but who cares...) and regains various things like our fishing industry, allows us to trade world-wide however we want and achieves the main aim of freeing us from the EU straightjacket.

            We should also note that even the arch-prat Junker is now saying the EU needs to become less bureaucratic and more aligned to the needs of the European peoples. The EU has had a rocket up its collective ass and must either react or fall apart.

            In time UK will be out of the EU but still closely allied to it. And all the doom merchants will look pretty damned silly.
            Blog? What blog...?

            Comment


              #16
              Originally posted by tomtomagain View Post
              My hunch ( based on nothing substantial ) is that right now there is an awful lot of diplomatic work going on trying to agree a materially-different settlement for the UK.

              If, for example, the EU-Elite offered the UK an op-opt of the movement of people and allowed the introduction of a "points-based" migration system. Then the new PM could either declare that the primary objections of the British people had now been met and ignore the result, or hold a second vote and hope to win that.

              The current situation is like this : You've had a meeting in the pub with your boss and told him you're unhappy and going to resign. You've turned up on Monday morning with a resignation letter in your pocket but not handed it in. The clock does not start ticking until you hand that notice in. You cannot be forced to hand in your notice. And if your boss suddenly offered a nice pay-rise and new job title then you'd be a fool to not reconsider.

              The UK government has said "We're going to wait until the we've got a new PM to start the process". Which is a handy way of delaying for 3 months, during which time there will be frenetic activity to figure out a compromise ( and I would hope the UK gov. to get a head start on arranging trade agreements with other countries ).

              Merkel has said "There's no rush". Which lines up nicely with the UK position.

              The UK leaving the EU is a massive problem for them. It tilts the balance of power towards the French. Removes a key, market-minded ally from Germany's table AND who's tax payers are going to be expected to make up the short fall in the EU budget?

              Merkel won't want to go down in history as the Chancellor who lost the UK but kept the Greeks.
              This is an excellent post. If it were genuinely the outcome for ALL of Europe I'm sure it would easily be supported. I think this is what Cameron wanted from the outset but the EU told him to feck off.

              On a personal level I wouldn't support it but I'm less concerned about immigration. As contractors most of our competition is outside the EU. My gripe is having the unelected socialists writing our laws.

              Comment


                #17
                Originally posted by malvolio View Post
                Hmmm...

                We need the single market, but they need it far more. Hence Germany's desire to keep us in Europe. However the vote was primarily for a regaining of UK sovereignty away from Brussels. So the end result could well be a free trade agreement with the EU, some modified form of freedom of movement - perhaps limits on entry with no job to go to and limits on how much family can come with you, as per the rest of the world - and the repeal of the UK laws that put EU ahead of UK legislation and justice authority. That satisfies the will of the UK voting public (bar the kiddies, the Scots and the self-interested that is but who cares...) and regains various things like our fishing industry, allows us to trade world-wide however we want and achieves the main aim of freeing us from the EU straightjacket.

                We should also note that even the arch-prat Junker is now saying the EU needs to become less bureaucratic and more aligned to the needs of the European peoples. The EU has had a rocket up its collective ass and must either react or fall apart.

                In time UK will be out of the EU but still closely allied to it. And all the doom merchants will look pretty damned silly.
                Another excellent post.

                I'm starting to think I've come to the wrong board.

                Comment


                  #18
                  Originally posted by GB9 View Post
                  This is an excellent post. If it were genuinely the outcome for ALL of Europe I'm sure it would easily be supported. I think this is what Cameron wanted from the outset but the EU told him to feck off.

                  On a personal level I wouldn't support it but I'm less concerned about immigration. As contractors most of our competition is outside the EU. My gripe is having the unelected socialists writing our laws.
                  Understood. But I think alot of people are concerned about immigration. I could be wrong, but to me it seemed like the influencing factor.

                  If the edge was taken off immigration(starting with non-EU immigration) I think people would vote to rejoin Europe.....

                  Comment


                    #19
                    Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
                    Understood. But I think alot of people are concerned about immigration. I could be wrong, but to me it seemed like the influencing factor.

                    If the edge was taken off immigration(starting with non-EU immigration) I think people would vote to rejoin Europe.....
                    I've never quite understood why we have more than a 1% or so non-EU immigration. The population of the EU is about 500,000,000 people.

                    If a company in the UK cannot find a worker with the skills in a pool of hundreds of millions of people free to work and live here, that employer should not be in existence.

                    I would be happy for the status quo in EU free movement on the basis that all non-EU immigration was switched off completely and heavily monitored and dealt with.
                    First Law of Contracting: Only the strong survive

                    Comment


                      #20
                      Originally posted by BrilloPad View Post
                      Understood. But I think alot of people are concerned about immigration. I could be wrong, but to me it seemed like the influencing factor.

                      If the edge was taken off immigration(starting with non-EU immigration) I think people would vote to rejoin Europe.....
                      I think you will find that Immigration was the catalyst that made people re-evaluate the EU. Until about 2004 the EU appeared to be all about bendy Bananas and grams versus ounces how we laughed. The good EU initiatives were showcased the others were kept quiet.

                      Once people started hearing almost every other white in the shopping centre, on the bus & at the school speaking an Eastern European language then they realised the EU was causing it. Then people explained what else was going on, Cameron got publicly screwed by the EU. I think now they want a bit more than just EU immigration control.
                      Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much.

                      Comment

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