Is the whole country now run by Indians or what?

[NotAllThere]

WHS - There was an article on this in the latest Private Eye.

It's strange, because one might think it was the other way round.

People do seem to have the strange idea that private means better. You go private to get treatment quicker. For anything other than routine stuff you're better off with the NHS. I saw the top quack for a health issue I had, here in Switzerland - he'd just completed a five year stint in the NHS to hone his skills.

[CoolCat]

the missus had complications in the middle of the night at home a few days after a private op, we rang the hospital, they rang the consultant who had done the op, he rang us, he arranged to meet us at the hospital an hour later, and he was examining her within 2 hours of us initially raising the alarm.

in the nhs we would have still been in the queue in A & E to see a nurse to triage us to see a junior doc, and a long wait to see any consultant, and no chance of actually getting to see the one who had done the op.

[IR35 Avoider]

To restore some balance in the private versus NHS debate...

Observation about NHS: Since my GP surgery opened in 1991 I've experience a median waiting time of two weeks for an appointment.

Contrasting observation about private: Recently MIL, who lives in South-East Asia, had blood in stool. Called GP, given same-day appointment. After examination given a consultant appointment the following day. Scans done and biopsy taken. Result return from lab two days later. Surgery to remove small section of bowel scheduled for following week, one week and two days after initial decision to contact GP.

So in a little over half the time it would have taken me to get to see a GP, she had been diagnosed by a specialist and operated on.

[eek]

To restore some balance in the private versus NHS debate...

Observation about NHS: Since my GP surgery opened in 1991 I've experience a median waiting time of two weeks for an appointment.

Contrasting observation about private: Recently MIL, who lives in South-East Asia, had blood in stool. Called GP, given same-day appointment. After examination given a consultant appointment the following day. Scans done and biopsy taken. Result return from lab two days later. Surgery to remove small section of bowel scheduled for following week, one week and two days after initial decision to contact GP.

So in a little over half the time it would have taken me to get to see a GP, she had been diagnosed by a specialist and operated on.

Isn't that just a longer version of

You go private to get treatment quicker.

[Old Greg]

the missus had complications in the middle of the night at home a few days after a private op, we rang the hospital, they rang the consultant who had done the op, he rang us, he arranged to meet us at the hospital an hour later, and he was examining her within 2 hours of us initially raising the alarm.

in the nhs we would have still been in the queue in A & E to see a nurse to triage us to see a junior doc, and a long wait to see any consultant, and no chance of actually getting to see the one who had done the op.

Sounds like you had a good consultant who takes responsibility out of hours (and he has no specialty team to support him in the private hospital).

A more likely scenario for an NHS emergency readmission following discharge is to phone the ward and either be admitted to the ward or admitted quickly via A&E (no need for triage as the assessment has been done and the admission arranged). A&E don't want to take clinical responsibility for a patient under the care of a surgeon as they're busy enough.

[VectraMan]

People do seem to have the strange idea that private means better. You go private to get treatment quicker. For anything other than routine stuff you're better off with the NHS. I saw the top quack for a health issue I had, here in Switzerland - he'd just completed a five year stint in the NHS to hone his skills.

The lines are somewhat blurred. I had an operation in the same NHS hospital and with the same surgeon that I was initially referred to under the NHS, but done privately. What that meant in practice was I got a private room, because otherwise it was the same NHS nurses and staff, NHS facilities, and (unfortunately) NHS food. Presumably the NHS is charging the private health organisation for those services, even though the NHS would have been providing them for free anyway, not to mention the fact this particular NHS hospital was designed and built with private rooms on the wards and a separate private patient reception area.

I'm not sure there's any such thing as a NHS only consultant/surgeon because it seems the norm is for them to work both sides of the street (literally in the case of my local hospital as the private hospital is the other side of the street). Things definitely aren't equal though. Soon after my operation the surgeon's secretary phoned me to make a follow up appointment because "he wants to see all his private patients before he goes on holiday". NHS patients can obviously wait.

[Old Greg]

To restore some balance in the private versus NHS debate...

Observation about NHS: Since my GP surgery opened in 1991 I've experience a median waiting time of two weeks for an appointment.

Contrasting observation about private: Recently MIL, who lives in South-East Asia, had blood in stool. Called GP, given same-day appointment. After examination given a consultant appointment the following day. Scans done and biopsy taken. Result return from lab two days later. Surgery to remove small section of bowel scheduled for following week, one week and two days after initial decision to contact GP.

So in a little over half the time it would have taken me to get to see a GP, she had been diagnosed by a specialist and operated on.

Yes General Practice are buggers, and it is really not that difficult to implement "Advanced Access" booking systems that allow same day appointments, while also allowing patients to book ahead if - for example - they work or need a working relative to get them in. Unfortunately many GP practices are too incompetent, awkward or lazy to implement. One might argue that this is a problem with contracting private businesses to deliver NHS services

A good GP can be worth it IMO for long-term conditions and children, where a relationship is important. We were lucky that our GP picked up on various bits of information to get YG1 a quick test and diagnosis of coeliac disease. However, there are two GPs in the practice who are pretty rubbish. If it's for me, I go to a walk-in centre, where I find the quality of care for routine stuff for otherwise well people (e.g. ear infection) very good.

[VectraMan]

Contrasting observation about private: Recently MIL, who lives in South-East Asia, had blood in stool. Called GP, given same-day appointment. After examination given a consultant appointment the following day. Scans done and biopsy taken. Result return from lab two days later. Surgery to remove small section of bowel scheduled for following week, one week and two days after initial decision to contact GP.

My Step Mother went to see her GP without appointment, just turned up and saw the GP within an hour. The GP arranged for her to have a scan which meant going to the hospital in the nearby large town - the same day. Went for the scan, they gave her a copy of the results and faxed the GP. She went back to see the GP that evening (open to 7.30), and the GP arranged for the nurse to give her some injections starting the next morning.

Where was this? France. It wasn't private (though they do generally pay 20%); this is their equivalent of the NHS.

Why can't we do that?

[Old Greg]

My Step Mother went to see her GP without appointment, just turned up and saw the GP within an hour. The GP arranged for her to have a scan which meant going to the hospital in the nearby large town - the same day. Went for the scan, they gave her a copy of the results and faxed the GP. She went back to see the GP that evening (open to 7.30), and the GP arranged for the nurse to give her some injections starting the next morning.

Where was this? France. It wasn't private (though they do generally pay 20%); this is their equivalent of the NHS.

Why can't we do that?

Partly this:

List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But it does sound like they have some good process for timely reporting of investigations.

[SueEllen]

Many years ago I worked on a hospital ward and there were dedicated 'night only' nursing staff, who were mainly black. There has been a move away from night only staff in the NHS as part of initiatives to improve hospital at night safety, as night only staff tend to get fewer opportunities for training and are not as well monitored for performance. Or that's the theory anyway - don't know whether data backs it up.

Generally when people are recruited to work in the UK they are given the shifts the British don't want.

Anyway part of the reason for the changes is money and the other is the pretence of complying with the working time directive.

If you give people shifts rather than just allowing them to work nights or days only you can stretch the qualified staff out and don't need to hire so many bank staff.