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  1. #21

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    I'm not convinced that aligning ourselves with umbrella companies is a good idea at all.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave View Post
    I'm not convinced that aligning ourselves with umbrella companies is a good idea at all.
    If the worst happens how can it be harmful. I also don't think we are aligning ourselves with them as Lisa is personally taking a lot of time to do this for us so not like we are getting in bed with the umbrellas.

    Also these changes will have some very serious consequences to everyone related to us as well so why got everyone impacted not just coal face contractors? It would be nice if the agents had chipped in as well rather than thinking of themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    If the worst happens how can it be harmful. I also don't think we are aligning ourselves with them as Lisa is personally taking a lot of time to do this for us so not like we are getting in bed with the umbrellas.

    Also these changes will have some very serious consequences to everyone related to us as well so why got everyone impacted not just coal face contractors? It would be nice if the agents had chipped in as well rather than thinking of themselves.
    Is it not Umbrella Cos that have caused a lot of the issues with 'contractors' who are really just agency staff taking the mick on travel expenses?
    Umbrella users are easy targets in the 'not proper business' stakes. I don't wish to be categorised with them myself.

    It would indeed be nice if the agencies were more use to us, but most of the agencies in Electronics seem to also deal with factory staff etc in bulk, so are not solely in the professional freelancer market. Really this ought to be driven by some sort of Contractors Group for Professionals?

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave View Post
    Is it not Umbrella Cos that have caused a lot of the issues with 'contractors' who are really just agency staff taking the mick on travel expenses?
    Umbrella users are easy targets in the 'not proper business' stakes. I don't wish to be categorised with them myself.

    It would indeed be nice if the agencies were more use to us, but most of the agencies in Electronics seem to also deal with factory staff etc in bulk, so are not solely in the professional freelancer market. Really this ought to be driven by some sort of Contractors Group for Professionals?
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  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    +1

    Actually make it a double.

    This is about making an impact on social media to raise awareness, you're not signing up to a professional body that HMRC are going to be looking at closely.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave View Post
    Is it not Umbrella Cos that have caused a lot of the issues with 'contractors' who are really just agency staff taking the mick on travel expenses?
    Umbrella users are easy targets in the 'not proper business' stakes. I don't wish to be categorised with them myself.

    It would indeed be nice if the agencies were more use to us, but most of the agencies in Electronics seem to also deal with factory staff etc in bulk, so are not solely in the professional freelancer market. Really this ought to be driven by some sort of Contractors Group for Professionals?
    Actually the Government has had a thing about contractors since before 1999 (and there were very few brollies around then)- why do you think IR35 was introduced in the first place? The number of umbrella companies has grown alongside the number of PSC's as demand for contractors has increased. Yes, there are some companies that call themselves umbrella companies that have operated avoidance schemes and T&S schemes (pay day by pay day) but, by the same token, there have also been contractors who have taken dividends from Ltd Co's who were maybe not entitled to do so under IR35 rules.

    This is not about taking sides, it's not in my interests to fight against the changes to IR35 that could be introduced, it's about the industry working together to protect itself - that's all we're trying to achieve - if you don't want to be part of it it's no problem - I believe in free will but you should understand that this about cohesion and not division. In my mind there are not PSC contractors and brolly contractors there are just contractors.....and then there are temps and the high proliferation of them moving into or being forced into the contracting world is a big contributing factor to the problems we are experiencing now
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  7. #27

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    I'm well aware of that, I had already been a contractor for some years when IR35 came along.

    Unfortunately I think this is absolutely going to be about differentiation, just as in 1999 there was a genuine difference between those of us who had chosen to be properly freelance intending to have many clients, and those who were being coerced into self employment for one 'client'.

    You need to consider how this looks to the Daily Mule and Grauniad readers, it seems that is the particular court of public opinion being used.

    "Yes, there are some companies that call themselves umbrella companies that have operated avoidance schemes and T&S schemes " yet 'all umbrella co's are equal'?

    We need to think how this kind of thing looks to outsiders.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave View Post
    We need to think how this kind of thing looks to outsiders.
    Indeed but showing this affects a whole raft of supporting industries including umbrellas goes a long way to prove this isn't just a gang of tax dodging contractors surely?
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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave View Post
    Is it not Umbrella Cos that have caused a lot of the issues with 'contractors' who are really just agency staff taking the mick on travel expenses?
    Yes - that's why PSCs weren't in the original discussion document on travel and subsistence.

    Which then gave HMRC the ability to say "no PSC has complained" when they moved to consultation from discussion.
    Last edited by TheFaQQer; 18th November 2015 at 14:34.
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  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightwave View Post
    I'm well aware of that, I had already been a contractor for some years when IR35 came along.

    Unfortunately I think this is absolutely going to be about differentiation, just as in 1999 there was a genuine difference between those of us who had chosen to be properly freelance intending to have many clients, and those who were being coerced into self employment for one 'client'.

    You need to consider how this looks to the Daily Mule and Grauniad readers, it seems that is the particular court of public opinion being used.

    "Yes, there are some companies that call themselves umbrella companies that have operated avoidance schemes and T&S schemes " yet 'all umbrella co's are equal'?

    We need to think how this kind of thing looks to outsiders.
    The All Umbrella Companies are Equal name came from Animal Farm (the George Orwell version ) - the rest of the quote is 'but some are more equal than others'
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