View Poll Results: Any feedback on the idea?

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17. You may not vote on this poll
  • It's perfect!

    3 17.65%
  • Needs a recruiter directory

    6 35.29%
  • Needs email/pass login as well as social

    4 23.53%
  • I don't trust it to not spam me

    7 41.18%
  • I don't want to update recruiters online

    8 47.06%
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  1. #11

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    Isn't this a bit LinkedIn'y?

    Even Jobserve, CWJobs and the like you can turn your profile "unsearchable".

    I don't really get it to be honest.

  2. #12
    Boo
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmo21 View Post
    I don't really get it to be honest.
    It's just another leech with an inventive way of trawling for past employers.

    Boo

  3. #13

    Still gathering requirements...

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    Lightbulb How it's different to cv blackholes and LinkedIn..

    Quote Originally Posted by jmo21 View Post
    Isn't this a bit LinkedIn'y?

    Even Jobserve, CWJobs and the like you can turn your profile "unsearchable".

    I don't really get it to be honest.
    Ok, I stopped contracting 1.5yrs ago and wrote this system because when I was contracting I had to choose between throwing my requirements at:
    • CV blackholes
    • LinkedIn (colleagues/bosses all watching)

    How many people have you seen change their job title in LinkedIn to 'Now available" or something, because there is no way to share your requirements online? I see it all the time, and it's a joke!

    I designed the tool so that I can tell the guys I trust what I want, and the rest that I'm unavailable without revealing my contact details

    Friends and I use this system to start and stop our job hunts, and my google analytics tell me a growing number of other people are too!

    My main excitement at the moment is in presenting to you guys a list of which recruiters 'the crowd' trusts most. I can break this down by industry, and rate requirements too.
    Last edited by benjiman; 1st August 2013 at 16:03.

  4. #14

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    Default Is it all a massive trap?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo View Post
    It's just another leech with an inventive way of trawling for past employers.

    Boo
    Sigh... Lewis has already backed me up earlier, my name is Ben Ritchie, my LinkedIn profile is here

    Come add me up! Im loving this feedback, I hope this reply does not seem defensive:

    I didn't spend all this time creating a product, just to get some candidate or recruiter email addresses, they are widely available anyway!

    I stopped contracting to build this because for 10yrs contractors have complained about certain agencies, and standard practice but don't seem to have done anything about it.

    Contractors are invited to add their recruiters by hand, OR if they prefer not to type, and re-discover old recruitment interactions they can do so optionally via their social network/gmail.

    Is it that you think I did all this to harvest emails to then mass-email with job offers?

    I am enjoying discussing why some of you may not agree with the business model Im presenting, but that's just a complete dead-end, why would I spend all this time doing that? Mass-mailing is dumb

  5. #15

    Some things in Moderation

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    The only agency I don't bother with is Spring/Hyphen and that is because of their crap ECM business model.

    It is rarely the whole agency that needs to be avoided, just the cowboy agents.

    I'm not closing down any avenue (bar one) that will get me a contract.

  6. #16

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    Default Mega reply! Tried to keep it short promise :/

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    I don't care whether it's inefficient for the recruiter or not - they are the ones making the decision to call / email me.
    We know from surveys that people don't like to be cold-called and emailed unnecessarily, and it costs recruiters a hell of a lot money. Some people don't mind, that's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Maybe you need to sell this to recruiters so that they then only accept information from your site, so they don't have to make the calls, but I can't see that happening.
    Recruiters are kept busy chasing leads generated by candidates that trust them and are open to offers first. It reduces the probability that anyone's time gets wasted.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Most agents that I have regular contact with call me, update their system to show when I'm available and then either (a) call me with a role when I'm available; (b) call me with a role when I'm unavailable because it sounds good; (c) don't call me because they don't have a role.
    You sound like that you're happy with your current workflow, maybe it's not for you. I can't expect a 100% conversion rate!

    What about when we add recruiter insights from those who are using the system, and our job ad web-crawling such as which recruitment consultants are most trusted for:
    • tech specialism
    • high rate contracts

    .. all based on data and completely non-subjective.

    How about anonymous job questions, where we give you a chance to ask questions before giving up who you are? It's in development...

    What about a semantic timeline cv, with dynamic semantic skills-matching, keywords are a joke. I've designed a system that eliminates keywords from job descriptions and cvs.

    Does any of that add enough to our business model to interest you?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    When the market is slow, do they really have time to check emails from you to say that I'm available? Unless there is an interface into their systems (whatever they may be) to show when someone is available or not, then I don't see you adding value to their business model.
    Recruiters have a database full of names. They don't have a clue who is looking, or what their current rate expectations are.

    They have spent years gaining candidate trust, and now they have a back-channel through which candidates can open up to offers discretely. It's pretty simple, they love it, useful leads from candidates they already have good relationships with.

    Many candidates don't all like getting all the calls, it can be awkward at work. We let you choose the times you're open to offers.

    Recruiters regularly miss out on contractor availability using a six-monthly catch-up call-cycle

    We just handle the trust and (dis)engagement phase for people that already trust each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Because not all recruiters who I've worked with cover all the roles out there? There are recruiters I've never emailed or spoken to before who get in touch with new roles - if I'm not interested, then I tell them that. I don't spend a great deal of time fretting about people contacting me, particularly if I'm looking for a new project. Anything which limits the chances of me finding a new project isn't good business as far as I can see.
    I used to get far too many inappropriate job offers, and I used to try to keep my online activities down to avoid the barrage. Some people don't mind 30 offers a month, for me it's annoying, and dilutes the relationships I've formed. It's no big deal for me to tell recruiters I'm not available, I can open up later.

    Quote Originally Posted by benjiman View Post
    Recruiters will race to help you when they know that your requirements have also been delivered to other recruiters at the same time via us.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    I think that's naive.
    Recruiters operate in a PSL of 10+ other recruiters, they are all issued the same role and are judged on their ability to produce a unique shortlist. The shortlist is unique, because recruiters 'secure' the contractor's interest in the role.

    Make no mistake, recruiters (well sourcers/researchers) understand this is basically a race. If they hang about, they find their top candidates saying "Sorry, Recruiter X is putting me forward already".

    Recruiters are generally pretty quick to react when I contact them, do you find that recruiters don't get back to you quickly?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Not really. There will always be a perception that you could access data, email addresses etc from any of those sources. Whether that is an accurate perception or not, it's something that will put people off.
    Apart from meeting you guys online, and figuring out what to change next, Im just adding the email/pass signup right now, to remove need for social use, as a few people have said it's a blocker.

    Thanks again, feeling a bit of negativity here, but you are shrewd guys. You're helping me choose what I need to prioritise next to satisfy some of these concerns.

    We realise there's not a lot to the site right now, but getting the design and user experience to this level took us ages, and lots of interviews with contractors. Starting to get some momentum now though.

    I'm afraid you're all stuck with us for a while yet, that google analytics trend is addictive!
    Last edited by benjiman; 1st August 2013 at 16:04.

  7. #17

    Still gathering requirements...

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    Default That's cool cojak - I got that covered :D

    Quote Originally Posted by cojak View Post
    It is rarely the whole agency that needs to be avoided, just the cowboy agents.
    We work purely on the individual basis, even if you trust an agency you only generally work with one guy, or their assistant.

  8. #18

    Faqqed Off

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiman View Post
    Recruiters operate in a PSL of 10+ other recruiters, they are all issued the same role and are judged on their ability to produce a unique shortlist. The shortlist is unique, because recruiters 'secure' the contractor's interest in the role.

    Make no mistake, recruiters (well sourcers/researchers) understand this is basically a race. If they hang about, they find their top candidates saying "Sorry, Recruiter X is putting me forward already".
    Two words - sole agency.

    I've had agents approach me about work which then turns out that they don't have the rights to put me forward - they will put me forward to another agency who then have sole rights for the role.

    Last permie job I had, we replaced the PSL with one agency. I know that they still have only one approved agency. And yet I still see other agencies advertising the same role at the same place, even though they can't get you through the door.

    To assume that there is a long PSL may be true in banking, but not necessarily true of the entire industry.
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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiman View Post
    We don't get access to your login username or password, it's an OAuth request for your first and last names, photo and email. Perhaps we can better explain this on the site.. Does that change anything?
    That's not true, though.



    That might be what you want, but you ask for access to the friend list as well.

    Not good, and another reason to avoid this like the plague.
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  10. #20

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    I admire the enthusiasm and I think everybody should have a plan B, especially given the state of the contracting market.

    However.

    This is not a good idea. There's just no need for it. Just activate your CV on Jobserve, eFinancialCareers, post and update on LinkedIn and put the word out amongst the contacts you've made, both fellow contractors and agents you trust.

    Have you got a plan C? If so I'd maybe give that a shot. Either that or get back into the contract market.

    Also, the names sounds a bit dodgy to me - sounds like I'm having an affair or something.

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