Agent needing to see passport when they have already seen scans

[Payso]

Having read a lot of posts here i am glad that i did.

I have just secured my first contract via my limited company and have had a few issues with the agent. After the client delayed proceedings for almost two weeks with decision making and 'red-tape' i am now being rushed into signing contracts asap to get me on site straight away.

I am going to get the contract professionally reviewed regardless and 'opt in' to regulation 32(9) on the advice i have read on previous posts.

One of the more strange requests was that i need to go to the offices and show my passport to their compliance team to verify it and sign it off. I have already supplied scans of the passport so am unsure as to why they have asked to see it in person. In the same sentence they mentioned that i could sign all the other forms whilst i am there. Is it common then to ask for scans and then a personal viewing of one's passport?

I am thinking they are a bit nervous as i mentioned that i would not sign the contract until reviewed and would not agree verbally either to taking said contract.

So far i have felt pressured into doing things their way. They mentioned that everyone 'opts out' and that Qdos would have seen 'hundreds of their contracts' anyway. After a bit of searching here i would agree on the second point and it seems their standard contract is not IR35 friendly either.

I have to assume that they are getting me on site to apply more pressure. All in all this is starting to make me want to back out of the whole thing and having been a permie for many years that i had forgotten how unscrupulous agents are.

[Wanderer]

client delayed proceedings for almost two weeks with decision making and 'red-tape' i am now being rushed into signing contracts asap to get me on site straight away.

Yep, that's how it goes. Roll with it.

I am going to get the contract professionally reviewed regardless and 'opt in' to regulation 32(9) on the advice i have read on previous posts.

Very good so far, you have passed the first two tests!

One of the more strange requests was that i need to go to the offices and show my passport to their compliance team to verify it and sign it off. I have already supplied scans of the passport so am unsure as to why they have asked to see it in person. In the same sentence they mentioned that i could sign all the other forms whilst i am there. Is it common then to ask for scans and then a personal viewing of one's passport?

They can ask for whatever they want. There is no legal requirement for them to check your right to live/work in the UK because they are not employing you so this isn't driven by the law. this is just their terms of business so you have to either do what they ask, negotiate with them or walk away from the contract offer.

In negotiation, you could offer to present your passport for verification to the client on the first day. As you say, by wanting you to visit them they may have a hidden agenda of coercing you into signing the contract/opt out on the spot. Before you go, make up your mind that you will not under any circumstances sign the opt out or contract at the agencies offices. Say it: "Thank you for the contract which I will get reviewed and returned to you ASAP but I will not be signing anything here and now". Practice saying that in front of the mirror, they are going to put a lot of pressure on you.

So far i have felt pressured into doing things their way. They mentioned that everyone 'opts out' and that Qdos would have seen 'hundreds of their contracts' anyway.

Sales patter. Just smile and nod but stick to the script "Thank you for your time, I will have the contract reviewed and get back to you ASAP".

All in all this is starting to make me want to back out of the whole thing and having been a permie for many years that i had forgotten how unscrupulous agents are.

Don't worry, northernladuk will be along in a minute to give you a bit of a beating and see if you are really cut out to be a contractor and that will toughen you up a bit.

Good luck!

[malvolio]

A passport is only proof of ID if you are stood there holding it; copies can be faked. I've had an agent come down from Mancheter to Bristol just to see mine (I bought him lunch though...). Partly your fault for opting in, which means thegency has to do more, and more stringent, checks but nothing to get precious about. Be thankful the agency understands the rules, far too many don't

[Gentile]

Having read a lot of posts here i am glad that i did.

I have just secured my first contract via my limited company and have had a few issues with the agent. After the client delayed proceedings for almost two weeks with decision making and 'red-tape' i am now being rushed into signing contracts asap to get me on site straight away.

I am going to get the contract professionally reviewed regardless and 'opt in' to regulation 32(9) on the advice i have read on previous posts.

One of the more strange requests was that i need to go to the offices and show my passport to their compliance team to verify it and sign it off. I have already supplied scans of the passport so am unsure as to why they have asked to see it in person. In the same sentence they mentioned that i could sign all the other forms whilst i am there. Is it common then to ask for scans and then a personal viewing of one's passport?

I am thinking they are a bit nervous as i mentioned that i would not sign the contract until reviewed and would not agree verbally either to taking said contract.

So far i have felt pressured into doing things their way. They mentioned that everyone 'opts out' and that Qdos would have seen 'hundreds of their contracts' anyway. After a bit of searching here i would agree on the second point and it seems their standard contract is not IR35 friendly either.

I have to assume that they are getting me on site to apply more pressure. All in all this is starting to make me want to back out of the whole thing and having been a permie for many years that i had forgotten how unscrupulous agents are.

Sounds like you've got a good nose for BS, and you've correctly identified their real underlying agenda. Any agent that's asked to meet me in person has always been wasting my time; that's just been my experience. If they're not pumping you for leads or trying to pressure you into agreeing to a clause that you've already said you're not willing to negotiate upon, F2Fs with agents are usually just you being 'interviewed' by someone that doesn't have a clue what it is that you do or what it is that the client needs. Usually, to add insult to injury, they've only been out of Uni for five minutes themselves and it shows.

It's up to you whether you want to play along in this instance for the sake of appearance and to show good will when you have reason to suspect they have an alternative agenda. Personally, I'll always drop a contract/agent rather than be messed around where I detect BS. As soon as someone materially changes the job description, or refuses to respect my position on a particular point of negotiation that I've made my position clear on, that's when I walk away. There's a difference between being a good salesperson (which all agents need to be) and failing to listen, and no agent that's on the level is going to lose their commission over a standard contractual point like opting out, payment terms, MOO, etc. There are lots more agents out there that are capable of participating in reasonable negotiations without getting into circular debates or playing bait and switch with the terms and conditions, and you'll no doubt be able to find one if your present contract can't be agreed to mutually-acceptable terms. At this juncture, after the client has interviewed you and decided that it's you they want, it's unlikely that the agent will be able to find another person to fill your shoes as easily as you can find someone to fill theirs. Good luck.

[BolshieBastard]

Having read a lot of posts here i am glad that i did.

I have just secured my first contract via my limited company and have had a few issues with the agent. After the client delayed proceedings for almost two weeks with decision making and 'red-tape' i am now being rushed into signing contracts asap to get me on site straight away.

I am going to get the contract professionally reviewed regardless and 'opt in' to regulation 32(9) on the advice i have read on previous posts.

One of the more strange requests was that i need to go to the offices and show my passport to their compliance team to verify it and sign it off. I have already supplied scans of the passport so am unsure as to why they have asked to see it in person. In the same sentence they mentioned that i could sign all the other forms whilst i am there. Is it common then to ask for scans and then a personal viewing of one's passport?

I am thinking they are a bit nervous as i mentioned that i would not sign the contract until reviewed and would not agree verbally either to taking said contract.

So far i have felt pressured into doing things their way. They mentioned that everyone 'opts out' and that Qdos would have seen 'hundreds of their contracts' anyway. After a bit of searching here i would agree on the second point and it seems their standard contract is not IR35 friendly either.

I have to assume that they are getting me on site to apply more pressure. All in all this is starting to make me want to back out of the whole thing and having been a permie for many years that i had forgotten how unscrupulous agents are.

Should have told them you dont have a passport as you have no need. As an alternative you can present your photo id drivers licence to their representative who can visit you at your registered office address or client site etc, etc.

Get the contract reviewed by Bauer & Cottrell and dont step on site until you've had all contract changes agreed and implemented. The agent may try and get you on site while the contract is being reviewed but, you seriously weaken your chances of getting any changes made if on site plus, Adecco contracts in particular state if you do step on site, you are deemed to have accepted the orignial T&C's.

[Payso]

Thanks all for the many helpful responses.

I have decided not to go to the agency until the contract has been reviewed and finalised.

Will draft an email later informing him of my decision to opt in and that I will happily present my ID on successful review of the contract by Qdos or equivalent.

He's been ok up until now. Assume he is seeing £££ signs as it appears to be their first placement with the client therefore getting a bit pushy. He also phoned whilst i was having a phone interview with another client so that has most likely spooked him. Still if his contract is IR35 friendly he would have nothing to worry about; I think this is not likely.

To be honest the location of the contract is not ideal so am happy to play the field whilst these negotiations are going on and potentially take something else. Would rather not go through the process all over again but I feel it is best to start as you mean to go on and not applying best practices now will potentially hurt later.

[malvolio]

Fine, your call. But (a) its not BS, it's a legal requirment for opted in contracts that they they have agreed wth their clients that they will follow and (b) they may well just say no proof of ID, no contract; it's not like they won't have a fallback position if you prove too difficult. . There comes a point when earning the money takes precednece over proving how much you dont need them.

[SueEllen]

Malvolio I've had to show ID whether I've been opted-in or opted-out.

Sometimes the client has preferred to do the ID check themselves and has required me to present on the first day with my ID.

Payso if you are interested in a role make sure you always have the contact details of the potential client, and don't be afraid to contact the client and make it clear you want the role. It's amazing when agencies BS you that if you mention you will speak to the client how they will back off.

[Gentile]

Thanks all for the many helpful responses.

I have decided not to go to the agency until the contract has been reviewed and finalised.

Will draft an email later informing him of my decision to opt in and that I will happily present my ID on successful review of the contract by Qdos or equivalent.

He's been ok up until now. Assume he is seeing £££ signs as it appears to be their first placement with the client therefore getting a bit pushy. He also phoned whilst i was having a phone interview with another client so that has most likely spooked him. Still if his contract is IR35 friendly he would have nothing to worry about; I think this is not likely.

To be honest the location of the contract is not ideal so am happy to play the field whilst these negotiations are going on and potentially take something else. Would rather not go through the process all over again but I feel it is best to start as you mean to go on and not applying best practices now will potentially hurt later.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable approach. What malvolio says about legal obligations, etc, whilst debatable, is entirely irrelevant: you're offering to show them your passport in person as asked. You're just making sure there's a mutually-acceptable deal on the table first before going to the trouble of travelling. If they still have a problem even after you've offered them all that they asked for, you can comfortably walk away safe in the knowledge that they were only wasting your time (or trying to) by asking you for something they didn't really want (sight of your passport in person) as a way of getting an opportunity to pressure you in person into agreeing a point you'd already made your position clear on (opting out).

[malvolio]

Just to be clear: the Ts&Cs of an opted in engagement require the agency to confirm the identity of the applicant whereas for an opted out one they don't. Agents, being simple folk and scared of shadows, routinely fail to appreciate the difference. In the OP's case they seem to have followed the rules: 90% of agencies don't actually know the rules exist.

My other point is that it is fundamentally bad business to risk losing a £30k contract for the sake of something trivial, especially when it's only because you can't see the point. The OP is not a contractor yet and is not really in the strongest position to play hardball. All I'm doing is advising a degree of caution: you bcan be a hero when you've got some history.