Opt out of Conduct of employment agencies 2003 act?
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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    So you've been introduced already. This thread will explain in detail what your situation is. It's gonna be a slog but a good read will answer your question.

    EDIT : That said Post number 5 from Wanderer gives you everything you need.
    Thanks read that.

    My take is that it is in my interest to Opt In - correct ?

    Irrespective of when and Intro happens etc, unless I sign an Opt Out, I will always be Opted In by default ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freud View Post

    My take is that it is in my interest to Opt In - correct ?

    Irrespective of when and Intro happens etc, unless I sign an Opt Out, I will always be Opted In by default ?
    Correct/Incorrect ^^^ ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freud View Post
    Correct/Incorrect ^^^ ?
    Read the thread and google some articles and you'll find your answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freud View Post
    Correct/Incorrect ^^^ ?
    One of the main talents you need as a contractor is being able to make your own decisions. You've been given all the necessary information on a couple of things now, and still you're seeking confirmation. If contracting were just hard and fast binary options, life would be a lot easier. For all of us.

    The quick answer to this question is yes, probably. Whether or not that's the right answer in your circumstnaces only you can answer.
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    Sorry if I am being a bit of a PITA.

    No, I haven't read all 59 pages of this thread but have read a fair few pages of it.

    My situation is slightly different to what appears to be 99% of the posts on this thread.

    That is, I went to the Client direct, negotiated my rate but they are putting the contract through their preferred agency that manages the contractors.

    As such, I was not introduced by an agency, I did not seek a job through the agency but my contract will be with the agency and the agency will pay me.

    This lead me to my questions which I was hoping someone who has a firm grasp of the legislation and maybe has been part of this thread from the beginning, would be able to provide a simple answer or at least their guiding opinion, to save me spending an inordinate amount of time reading and digesting this thread when the majority of Q&A seems about contractors trying to find a job through the agency

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freud View Post
    Sorry if I am being a bit of a PITA.

    No, I haven't read all 59 pages of this thread but have read a fair few pages of it.

    My situation is slightly different to what appears to be 99% of the posts on this thread.

    That is, I went to the Client direct, negotiated my rate but they are putting the contract through their preferred agency that manages the contractors.

    As such, I was not introduced by an agency, I did not seek a job through the agency but my contract will be with the agency and the agency will pay me.

    This lead me to my questions which I was hoping someone who has a firm grasp of the legislation and maybe has been part of this thread from the beginning, would be able to provide a simple answer or at least their guiding opinion, to save me spending an inordinate amount of time reading and digesting this thread when the majority of Q&A seems about contractors trying to find a job through the agency
    I did provide an answer. I also said it all depends on your particular circumstances. The fact you found the work does not affect things though, since you are still working through an agency at the end of the day.

    Then again, you are bringing the work to them so it's up to you to negotiate the best deal. If that means ignoring the opt out - or getting them to ignore it - then fine. In fact the agency is adding a layer of protection you wouldn't have with a direct contract (I leave you to work out why) and not opting out further strengthens that point.

    And FTAOD I do have a firm grasp of the regulations and the use (and abuse) of the opt out and why it exists in the first place. Also have a hunt through the IPSE website: you will find a detailed explanation of the Agency Regs and how they should be applied.

    HTH. BIDI...
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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    I did provide an answer. I also said it all depends on your particular circumstances. The fact you found the work does not affect things though, since you are still working through an agency at the end of the day.

    Then again, you are bringing the work to them so it's up to you to negotiate the best deal. If that means ignoring the opt out - or getting them to ignore it - then fine. In fact the agency is adding a layer of protection you wouldn't have with a direct contract (I leave you to work out why) and not opting out further strengthens that point.

    And FTAOD I do have a firm grasp of the regulations and the use (and abuse) of the opt out and why it exists in the first place. Also have a hunt through the IPSE website: you will find a detailed explanation of the Agency Regs and how they should be applied.

    HTH. BIDI...
    I think the spanner in the works that Freud is alluding to is that the client have introduced him to the agency, rather than the other way round.
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    Thanks.

    I have read a bit more and think I understand the pros and cons.

    BTW, @malvolio I wasn't suggesting you didn't have a good grasp on the legislation so thanks for your help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Agree 100% with TykeMerc. We are talking about "The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003". Not opting out:

    1. Is not an IR35 pointer
    2. Means the agency have to pay you even if the client won't sign timesheets for some reason or if the client won't pay the agency.
    3. Limits the restrictive covenants in your contract to 14 weeks from the start or 8 weeks from the end.
    4. Section 32(13) of the regulations states that agencies cannot refuse to work with you because you won't opt out. The PCG say this.
    PCG would like to emphasise that it is a contravention of the Act for any agency to require you to opt out of the Agency Regulations.

    It may also be illegal for them to pressure you to do so by threatening not to put forward your CV. Should any members find themselves being required to opt out of the Agency Regulations, they should inform PCG via the link on this page.
    The REC also agrees saying that agencies must not make their services conditional upon you opting out.

    There is a piece about it here Opt-in, opt-out?Legal specialist Egos comments :: Contractor UK.

    There is a 50 page PDF from the DTI offering detailed analysis of the regulations.
    The PCG have some advice regarding opting out (members only). I disagree with their advice, but if you are looking for an opinion biased towards opting out then you may find it helpful.

    These pieces are are an interpretation of the law, if you want you can also read the relevant part of the original legislation and amendments to the legislation. Be warned that it may be an insomnia cure.

    It's been discussed a number of times on the forum but it's not an easy one to search for because the forum software thinks the search terms are too short. but try to Google for:

    site:contractoruk.com opt out

    There is some debate about when the opt out needs to be done. What the legislation says is that the opt out must be done "before the introduction or supply" of the worker. Lots of people say that they take this to mean that opt out is not valid unless it's done before the introduction but it could also be argued that the opt out is valid if it's done after the introduction but before the supply (eg, before you start working). It's a grey area and as far as I know it's never been tested in court. Certainly, signing the opt out may be construed as evidence that you wanted to opt out and it could be used against you if you tried to argue that it was done in an invalid manner.

    There are lots of sad stories from contractors who could have avoided a lot of grief if they didn't opt out. My advice is don't opt out unless you really know what you are doing. Agencies will try to tell you that everyone opts out but a very scientific poll on this forum shows that this is not true.

    If an agency insists that you must opt out or tells you that they only take "opted out" contractors then they are acting illegally. Do your fellow contractors a favour and report the agency to the following organisations:
    1. Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate eas@berr.gsi.gov.uk
    2. REC (if the agency is a member)
    3. PCG agencyregs@pcg.org.uk (if you aren't a PCG member, consider joining too)

    If you are wondering what fellow contractors do, then there is a opt in / opt out poll where you can vote for your favoured option.


    Spot on with this post.

    Tek Systems recently forced a contractor to opt in when they signed a document opting out and would not progress the contract without it. It is illegal behavour but more than that to bully a contractor to opt in when its really their choice and their legal advice as to what is best in their situation is nothing more than unconscionable conduct. I agree, report anyone who does this.

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