Is anyone else thinking

[grey_lady]

That recruitment agents are taking full advanatage of the worrying economic climate to squeeze rates. In my case the client pays my agent the same rate for all contractors - for some they take 10%, for others 45% and for the latest recruits even more. (ouch)

Whether agents are trying to price each other out of the market by undercutting each other to clients, or they are just squeezing us that bit more to make more pennies for themselves it's something that i think is very much happening in my area.

I've always been of the mindset that i name my rate and i don't care what the agent takes on top, but i personally know a couple of contractors who insisted from the agent of knowing what the client is paying (by telling them they will ask the client) and using that as a bargaining chip and if the agent won't tell them actually asking the client and then successfully
negoiating themselves a better deal.

Interesting to know others thoughts on this

[mailric]

I'd concur with those thoughts. I've seen/heard from an agency advertising one role for £300pd "due to the economic climate" but also advertising elsewhere £450, presumably the rate they can actually afford to offer should no one fall for their scaremongering.

They're just trying it on to make a bigger cut - the clients I know aren't pushing agencies to lower their rates.

[Ashwin2007]

I tend to agree. Some Agents' typical questions such as How is the market now, What is your rate, What was your last rate, Are you willing to reduce your rate, how many interviews you had, how long you have been looking... all these questions (except to discuss the role) appear to be with the intention to drive down the rate..

There appears to be a big drive to kill the contract market.

[mailric]

from the agencies persepctive, they need to make the most off each contract now that the market is slowing, so theyre going to try anything to squeeze rates down for contractors.

But you can bet your right bolok that theyre telling clients "well, you see alot of contractors have 'gone permanent/stayed in current contract/some other bullshlt' due to the volatile market conditions, so there arent many available resources out there, so unfortunatey you'll have to pay premium rates for the right candidate."

[BolshieBastard]

This is the only reason agencies have been reporting good results for the last year.

Its not that they are getting new business or placing significantly more contractors.

Its due to screwing rates down while taking more from clients.

[darrenb]

Originally Posted by Ashwin2007

There appears to be a big drive to kill the contract market.

It's as if the order has come down from above: "Okay, this is the bust phase, now you have to break the spirit of the contractors and turn as many of them as you can to permies."

Don't give out any rate information because that goes on your record and you will be limited to that not just for the current opportunity (probably imaginary anyway) but for any future opportunities. Imagine you have been beaten down to £300 now and a year later a £500 job that suits your skills comes along... what do you think the goon is going to offer you?

If there are simply no jobs, then it is better not to search at all because it is only going to depress you. I am fed up. My skills are well regarded but I am just going to have to go on holiday until companies start hiring again.

The whole price-fixing system is such an incredible waste of people's time and talent. I have little respect for any client that even uses recruiters.

[expat]

Originally Posted by Ashwin2007

I tend to agree. Some Agents' typical questions such as How is the market now, What is your rate, What was your last rate, Are you willing to reduce your rate, how many interviews you had, how long you have been looking... all these questions (except to discuss the role) appear to be with the intention to drive down the rate..

There appears to be a big drive to kill the contract market.

Oh for Goodness' sake! This is not new. The answer to "How are you finding the market?" is ALWAYS "Pretty good at the moment, actually".

"What is your rate?"
"What was your last rate?"
-- don't answer, just tell him what you want next.

"How many interviews have you had?"
-- a couple of phone interviews but I haven't made a definite decision yet.
(and then DON'T tell him where).

"Are you willing to reduce your rate?"
-- I can't really go any lower than that.

"How long have you been looking?"
-- I'm not actively looking at the moment. They will probably offer me an extension here, but I'd consider not taking it if something interesting comes up.

They ARE trying to talk down the market; or at least, if I were to be charitable, trying to find out what the bottom is. It's part of their business. In fact it's most of their business: the point where they fix how much you get (and therefore how much they keep for themselves) is where the money comes from.

[Another Dodgy Agent]

Originally Posted by expat

Oh for Goodness' sake! This is not new. The answer to "How are you finding the market?" is ALWAYS "Pretty good at the moment, actually".

"What is your rate?"
"What was your last rate?"
-- don't answer, just tell him what you want next.

"How many interviews have you had?"
-- a couple of phone interviews but I haven't made a definite decision yet.
(and then DON'T tell him where).

"Are you willing to reduce your rate?"
-- I can't really go any lower than that.

"How long have you been looking?"
-- I'm not actively looking at the moment. They will probably offer me an extension here, but I'd consider not taking it if something interesting comes up.

They ARE trying to talk down the market; or at least, if I were to be charitable, trying to find out what the bottom is. It's part of their business. In fact it's most of their business: the point where they fix how much you get (and therefore how much they keep for themselves) is where the money comes from.

Blimey reading the above and the other posts on here you folks have really been scarred in your past dealings with agencies!

I have certainly learnt something this morning from this. I always ask the above ("How are you finding the market" and "How long have you been looking") as conversation opener's, I know how the market is, I just want to get an understanding of how my candidate thinks the market is.

Regarding rate, I always ask "what rate would you ideally be looking for based on the role we have discussed?" - if the client has not provided rate parameters. If the client has provided a rate then I quote that rate. My Margin has been decided upon by my client, i.e. agree to 12% and you can work our roles, if I don't agree to that then I don't get the roles - simple.

I never ask a candidate to look at reducing rate, after all what would be the point, it would just shrink my margin as well and the winner is the client company who tends to have a lot more money than either my agency or your Ltd Co.

I don't care about where else your interviewing. All I care about is you accepting the role at my client site if you are offered. Some agent's working on new business think they can gain a lead by finding out who is interviewing but generally it doesn't work. Why? Because if a client is at interview stage then normally the last thing the hiring manager wants is another agent on the phone saying "I hear your looking for Fund Accounting BA's, I have some good candidate's you may be interested in..." or "I understand your interviewing Mr John Smith for this role, can I advise you that he has some bad references..." - yeah right, given the downer most contractor's have on agencies, what makes you think for a minute a client is going to be influenced by said barrow boy?

Regarding talking down the market, I am advising the opposite at the moment. Clients are taking on more contractors during this period. Why? Because if budgets are cut or projects canned then they can give the contractor notice rather than having to organise redundancy plans. Perm recruitment (in my sector at least) has dropped off completely. Why? Because perm candidate's are sticking where they are at the moment rather than looking for a new job during economic uncertainty. I am advising my clients that they need to look to organise renewals at least 8 weeks ahead of end of contract for contractor's or risk losing them to competitors and that any perm recruitment they are doing they need to look at a long haul before they find the ideal candidate, however in the meantime an interim contractor may fit the bill!

It's all good out there folks!

[Spacecadet]

I'll just quote myself on the matter:

Originally Posted by Spacecadet

Telephone call 1
Agent: Unfortunately, due to the down turn in the economy a lot of contractors have either gone for permanent jobs or are refusing to leave steady contracts, as a result we'll be unable to secure anybody for that role under £400 per day
Client: Wow are things that bad? well we really do need some one in or we're fliped. Just make sure they're good

Telephone call 2
Agent: Unfortunately, due to the down turn in the economy a lot of companies are either relying purely on permament staff they already have or are shelving IT projects, however essential, till things pick up. As things are, this client is refusing to go above £200 per day, I'm really sorry, I've tried my hardest but i can't do anything to budge them.
Contractor: flip

[gingerjedi]

It’s a win win situation for the agency, the professional contractor is forced to compete with less skilled contractors and the end client ends up with contractors prepared to work for the said rate who will invariably be less skilled than the pro despite the fact the client is paying the agency for the pro.

Not only that, the client will lose out when the pro moves on at the first opportunity to something more deserving of his skills.

Does that make sense??