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Working at Risk

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    Working at Risk

    Some advice would be much appreciated. I've been working at risk since the end of August and just wanted to understand my fellow contractor's appetite for doing the same.
    Bit of backstory: I joined a large Government department on a Digital Transformation programme, via a small consultancy about 15 months ago. Their framework agreement has now expired and they didn't win the new contract. However, I was asked to remain on the programme, but required to switch to the new supplier, one of the large, French consulting firms. So far so good, no real change for me, apart from administrative.
    However, no contract has yet been forthcoming, even though I'm quite confident it will, eventually.
    My question is this, how long would you continue working on-site without sight of an actual contract? I will remain professional and continue to deliver, but I'm wondering if, after a month, it's reasonable to start working from home. I'm actually not sure what to do as I've never been in this position before. Part of me says carry on regardless, whilst the other part would like to apply a bit of pressure.
    Thanks in advance
    The idiots are winning

    #2
    Originally posted by donjuan75 View Post
    Some advice would be much appreciated. I've been working at risk since the end of August and just wanted to understand my fellow contractor's appetite for doing the same.
    Bit of backstory: I joined a large Government department on a Digital Transformation programme, via a small consultancy about 15 months ago. Their framework agreement has now expired and they didn't win the new contract. However, I was asked to remain on the programme, but required to switch to the new supplier, one of the large, French consulting firms. So far so good, no real change for me, apart from administrative.
    However, no contract has yet been forthcoming, even though I'm quite confident it will, eventually.
    My question is this, how long would you continue working on-site without sight of an actual contract? I will remain professional and continue to deliver, but I'm wondering if, after a month, it's reasonable to start working from home. I'm actually not sure what to do as I've never been in this position before. Part of me says carry on regardless, whilst the other part would like to apply a bit of pressure.
    Thanks in advance
    about 30 seconds less time than it took to read this question (which was about 30 seconds).

    No insurance. No pay (there's no reason why they should pay if they don't have to). If they are committed to keeping you then they can sort it out very quickly.

    EDIT: I did once start before signing a contract, but I had a contract offer, in writing, and within the first day I'd got the amendments made that I wanted so was less than a day at-risk.
    Last edited by Lance; 18 September 2017, 09:25.
    See You Next Tuesday

    Comment


      #3
      In that situation - I'd not be doing anything. It's not unprofessional to tell them you can't work until a contract is sorted - you could potentially be seriously out of pocket. Some will tell you your insurance won't cover you, either - I think that's BS but it makes a good excuse if nothing else.

      I have worked without a contract where I've got a good understanding of what's going on - e.g., my current client couldn't get sign off due to somebody important being away but it was sorted within days and I figured I could take the hit worst case. I also got a written notice of intent. However, this one is pretty direct (Just client and agency) so I offered some trust up.

      When I was working for Capita they kept fluffing the extension paperwork so I'd just stay home until it was sorted.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by donjuan75 View Post
        Some advice would be much appreciated. I've been working at risk since the end of August and just wanted to understand my fellow contractor's appetite for doing the same.
        Bit of backstory: I joined a large Government department on a Digital Transformation programme, via a small consultancy about 15 months ago. Their framework agreement has now expired and they didn't win the new contract. However, I was asked to remain on the programme, but required to switch to the new supplier, one of the large, French consulting firms. So far so good, no real change for me, apart from administrative.
        However, no contract has yet been forthcoming, even though I'm quite confident it will, eventually.
        My question is this, how long would you continue working on-site without sight of an actual contract? I will remain professional and continue to deliver, but I'm wondering if, after a month, it's reasonable to start working from home. I'm actually not sure what to do as I've never been in this position before. Part of me says carry on regardless, whilst the other part would like to apply a bit of pressure.
        Thanks in advance
        I used to be black and white about this and downed tools while extension paperwork was being sort out.

        I would look at this in terms of risk:

        People will say that there is a liability insurance risk, but I'm not sure this is true; if you're turning up to client site and working and getting paid, there is clearly a contract even if it's not written down.

        There is a risk of not getting paid, and I would look to manage this on a weekly basis, by asking the consulting firm each Thursday to confirm by email that YourCo will be paid £x per day for services over the next week. If they're not prepared to do that, I would possibly down tools. You might also look at this in terms of expense and opportunity cost. Is it costing you much to turn up? What else would you be doing. You could approach this by looking for your next gig but turning up on site, working and invoicing in the mean time.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by vwdan View Post
          Some will tell you your insurance won't cover you, either - I think that's BS but it makes a good excuse if nothing else.
          From QDOS PI Insurance.

          Indemnity
          Up to the Indemnity limit for claims first made against the Insured during the Period of
          insurance for which the Insured is legally liable to pay damages (including claimant’s costs and
          expenses) and arising out of the ordinary course of the Professional business, in consequence
          of:-
          a) Breach of professional duty;
          b) Breach of a contract to design or supply Deliverables or IT Services caused by:
          a) any failure of the Deliverables or IT Services to conform with any written
          specification incorporated into a contract in which contract the Insured has warranted
          that the Deliverables or IT Services will conform with the specification;
          b) the existence of a material defect in the Deliverables or IT Services;
          c) the failure of the Deliverables or IT Services to meet any term implied by statute as
          to quality, fitness for purpose or the safety of the Deliverables or IT Services;

          c) Libel or slander;
          d) Unintentional breach of confidentiality or privacy;
          e) Unintentional infringement of intellectual property rights.
          so whilst there are elements that are arguably covered outside a contract, the main bulk of what PI is all about requires a contract.

          IANAL.
          See You Next Tuesday

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by northernladyuk View Post
            downed tools
            That's a bit of a misleading thing to say when you were specifically engaged to down tools.

            OP - it's up to you, but I'd be kicking up a stink by now. If it was a new gig i'd be out of the door. As you've been onsite a while then maybe you're more comfortable but the transfer to another consultancy would make me twitchy. In short, it smells bad to me. +1 to the insurance element too.

            Comment


              #7
              OP - in your position not at all.

              Admitedly, there are some clients that are just crap at sorting out renewals but this sounds different. I had a long term one who used to leave it until the last moment. I was wary they did this all the time, and if you worked for weeks without it being sorted they'd do it. I knew of one guy who worked for two weeks then they said "ah sorry budget has been withdrawn - really sorry but we cant extend you or pay you for last two weeks".
              Rhyddid i lofnod psychocandy!!!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Lance View Post
                From QDOS PI Insurance.



                so whilst there are elements that are arguably covered outside a contract, the main bulk of what PI is all about requires a contract.

                IANAL.
                But contracts don't have to be written down in law.

                However if there is a dispute you don't know what terms you are arguing about.....
                "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Lance View Post
                  From QDOS PI Insurance.

                  Breach of a contract to design or supply Deliverables or IT Services caused by:
                  a) any failure of the Deliverables or IT Services to conform with any written
                  specification incorporated into a contract in which contract the Insured has warranted
                  that the Deliverables or IT Services will conform with the specification;
                  b) the existence of a material defect in the Deliverables or IT Services;
                  c) the failure of the Deliverables or IT Services to meet any term implied by statute as
                  to quality, fitness for purpose or the safety of the Deliverables or IT Services;
                  so whilst there are elements that are arguably covered outside a contract, the main bulk of what PI is all about requires a contract.

                  IANAL.
                  I don't think that follows. Since there is no written contract, then there can't be any failure of deliverables or it services that are written into the contract. You might well not warrant your work, even if you have a written contract. b), c) and d) may be in existence with a non-written contract.

                  Put it the other way, PI protects you from being sued for not meeting quality etc. If there's no written contract, you can't be sued for not meeting deadlines or producing high quality deliverables.

                  IANALE (IANAL either).
                  Down with racism. Long live miscegenation!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by psychocandy View Post
                    OP - in your position not at all.

                    Admitedly, there are some clients that are just crap at sorting out renewals but this sounds different. I had a long term one who used to leave it until the last moment. I was wary they did this all the time, and if you worked for weeks without it being sorted they'd do it. I knew of one guy who worked for two weeks then they said "ah sorry budget has been withdrawn - really sorry but we cant extend you or pay you for last two weeks".
                    But this isn't a renewal. At least you can come in and have an implied contract where the last T&Cs stand. New client means there are no T&Cs at all to fall back on.
                    'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!

                    Comment

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