+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Posts 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1

    Fingers like lightning

    Big Blue Plymouth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    644
    Thanks (Given)
    60
    Thanks (Received)
    28
    Likes (Given)
    118
    Likes (Received)
    165

    Default Unusual Role - how would you handle this?

    I've been brought in ostensibly as a developer to work on a proof of concept to assess some 3rd party vendors' low code tools for generating web pages.

    Been here a week now and I am not going to be writing any code () . All I have to do is learn to use these tools with 4 other devs and provide feedback in daily meetings.

    The problem is that the 4 other devs are permies and are completely against any low code solutions as it's like turkeys voting for Christmas from their perspective so any positive input from myself in these meetings is going down like a lead balloon.

    On one hand, I'm more than happy to sit aroud doing f all for the next 3 months and get paid for it but I'm conscious of the fact that I have to give objective feedback without upsetting the permies otherwise I'm going to get skewered.

    Anyone been in this kind of role? Be interested to hear your thoughts.

  2. #2

    Contractor Among Contractors

    Lance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    home
    Posts
    1,120
    Thanks (Given)
    11
    Thanks (Received)
    44
    Likes (Given)
    116
    Likes (Received)
    245

    Default

    convince them that as programmers their only point is to make other people redundant by automating things. So get with the programme, man-up and work themselves out of a job with a smile.

    It grates me that IT people can be such Luddites.
    Finding another job because "I was so good that I setup systems that meant I wasn't needed any more" is a good thing.

  3. #3

    Double Godlike!

    malvolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Walking in the garden, dreaming of Olivia...
    Posts
    10,232
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    197
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue Plymouth View Post
    I've been brought in ostensibly as a developer to work on a proof of concept to assess some 3rd party vendors' low code tools for generating web pages.

    Been here a week now and I am not going to be writing any code () . All I have to do is learn to use these tools with 4 other devs and provide feedback in daily meetings.

    The problem is that the 4 other devs are permies and are completely against any low code solutions as it's like turkeys voting for Christmas from their perspective so any positive input from myself in these meetings is going down like a lead balloon.

    On one hand, I'm more than happy to sit aroud doing f all for the next 3 months and get paid for it but I'm conscious of the fact that I have to give objective feedback without upsetting the permies otherwise I'm going to get skewered.

    Anyone been in this kind of role? Be interested to hear your thoughts.
    Don't render an opinion and what the client should do. Carefully and fully perform the evaluations between old and new, work out time and cost differences (don't use the "savings" word) and long term impacts (for instance, do they want to de-skill a core resource...) and stay resolutely neutral. It's not your company or career, let the permies make the decisions.

    And consider walking away once you have done all you can for the evaluation work. Sitting there for three months is not doing anyone any favours.
    Blog? What blog...?

  4. #4

    Fingers like lightning

    Big Blue Plymouth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    644
    Thanks (Given)
    60
    Thanks (Received)
    28
    Likes (Given)
    118
    Likes (Received)
    165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    Don't render an opinion and what the client should do. Carefully and fully perform the evaluations between old and new, work out time and cost differences (don't use the "savings" word) and long term impacts (for instance, do they want to de-skill a core resource...) and stay resolutely neutral. It's not your company or career, let the permies make the decisions.

    And consider walking away once you have done all you can for the evaluation work. Sitting there for three months is not doing anyone any favours.
    Thats half the problem. There's no framework for providing any metrics. There's a spreadsheet with various categories that gets filled in as a team in a meeting every afternoon detailing the overall feelings of the group as a whole. These meetings are led by a delivery manager who has been brought in from an outside consultancy. The only other point of contact is the chief architect - also not a fan of low code.

  5. #5

    Double Godlike!

    BlasterBates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Trump University
    Posts
    10,875
    Thanks (Given)
    60
    Thanks (Received)
    219
    Likes (Given)
    373
    Likes (Received)
    764

    Default

    Your evaluation should be written in a report and if possible submitted to the PM only, not distributed to your colleagues. Don't use emotive terms like good or bad, focus on what the code can do, i.e. "you can produce header pages like this, it has the following shortcomings ...."etc. Only reply when spoken to in meetings, keeping the information very technical. In other words remove yourself from the politics. Don't get into arguments with other permies and defend this automated approach, just allow them to air their views unchallenged. If you're objective and you don't become the personification of this new automated approach you shouldn't have a problem.
    Author of the best seller "How to get Poor quickly"

  6. #6

    Fingers like lightning

    Cirrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Rural Rutland
    Posts
    534
    Thanks (Given)
    6
    Thanks (Received)
    41
    Likes (Given)
    120
    Likes (Received)
    156

    Default It might 90% of the code but the last 10% keeps you all occupied

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue Plymouth View Post
    Been here a week now and I am not going to be writing any code
    I've never seen any framework where you don't have to write code, and I've seen things come and go for over forty years including being initially seduced by both Erudine and Mendix. Lots of things can be generated but no product can read a BA's specification and turn into a living system. Then again no project has a specification that describes functionality correctly and completely. So you will finish up writing exactly the same amount of code (ie a day's worth per day). What will happen is you'll get more function points per line of code (per day of work).

    Well, that's the hope.

    For a lot of my developer career I dealt with end-user tools. Being a professional in that space was a nice little money maker. My mate specialises in things like Business Objects, and that's kept him contracting nearly into his 70s.
    "The only thing standing between me and greatness is ... me "

  7. #7

    Double Godlike!

    BlasterBates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Trump University
    Posts
    10,875
    Thanks (Given)
    60
    Thanks (Received)
    219
    Likes (Given)
    373
    Likes (Received)
    764

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue Plymouth View Post
    Thats half the problem. There's no framework for providing any metrics. There's a spreadsheet with various categories that gets filled in as a team in a meeting every afternoon detailing the overall feelings of the group as a whole. These meetings are led by a delivery manager who has been brought in from an outside consultancy. The only other point of contact is the chief architect - also not a fan of low code.
    Don't offer any opinions on "your feelings" unless you're specifically asked, and then wrap it up in copious amounts of jargon making it unclear about how you do actually feel, i.e. think "politician" don't answer the question he asked, say something diplomatic and meaningless that sounds clever.

    If everyone is against it, it will in any case fail.
    Author of the best seller "How to get Poor quickly"

  8. #8

    Double Godlike!

    malvolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Walking in the garden, dreaming of Olivia...
    Posts
    10,232
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    197
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue Plymouth View Post
    Thats half the problem. There's no framework for providing any metrics. There's a spreadsheet with various categories that gets filled in as a team in a meeting every afternoon detailing the overall feelings of the group as a whole. These meetings are led by a delivery manager who has been brought in from an outside consultancy. The only other point of contact is the chief architect - also not a fan of low code.
    Walk away. It's never going to end well. How can do any kind of evaluation if nobody knows (or is capable of formulating) something to be compared against? Let the external "consultant" carry the can.
    Blog? What blog...?

  9. #9

    I live on CUK

    SueEllen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    in the Park
    Posts
    26,288
    Thanks (Given)
    1133
    Thanks (Received)
    934
    Likes (Given)
    4252
    Likes (Received)
    3768

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Blue Plymouth View Post
    Thats half the problem. There's no framework for providing any metrics. There's a spreadsheet with various categories that gets filled in as a team in a meeting every afternoon detailing the overall feelings of the group as a whole. These meetings are led by a delivery manager who has been brought in from an outside consultancy. The only other point of contact is the chief architect - also not a fan of low code.
    You develop code yes?

    So you know how to translate BA requirements and some cases have to gather them yourself?


    Well then if the metrics they have are insufficient for you to report back then "gather" your own metrics and provide a detailed report on the pros and cons of the tool using your previous experience.

    You have worked with testers/QA yes?

    Then you know why they frequently throw stuff back? So remember to add metrics for this to your report.
    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

  10. #10

    Fingers like lightning

    Big Blue Plymouth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    644
    Thanks (Given)
    60
    Thanks (Received)
    28
    Likes (Given)
    118
    Likes (Received)
    165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    Walk away. It's never going to end well. How can do any kind of evaluation if nobody knows (or is capable of formulating) something to be compared against? Let the external "consultant" carry the can.
    I won't be booking any long term accommodation ;-)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.