Open ended contract (no fixed duration)
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    Default Open ended contract (no fixed duration)

    Has anyone ever been offered an open ended contract?
    i.e. no specified duration, it just continues until terminated (4 weeks notice either side). The project has potential to last 18-24 months.

    Pros:
    1. potential to last a long time
    2. no need for renewals
    3. some mortgage lenders may see it positively as an ongoing contract / more certainty?

    Cons:
    1. IR35 risk? (not sure)
    2. no renewals means no natural prompt to renegotiate rates
    3. other mortgage lenders may think it's risky? (although fixed term contracts usually have the same 4 weeks notice anyway)

    Thoughts welcome, I haven't come across this
    before!

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    Prof Cunning @ Oxford Uni

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    An "open ended contract" is also known as a "permanent job"
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    Fingers like lightning


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    Quote Originally Posted by WTFH View Post
    An "open ended contract" is also known as a "permanent job"
    Which also normally have about a 4 week notice period too...

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    Default Open ended contract (no fixed duration)

    If it's tied in to one project only then I don't see the time being open-ended as a problem. There's certainly no explicit ruling to say a contract has to be time limited to be outside IR35.

    Although... you could be a bit stuck claiming any expenses as you can reasonably expect to be there for more than 24 months.

    IANAL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    If it's tied in to one project only then I don't see the time being open-ended as a problem. There's certainly no explicit ruling to say a contract has to be time limited to be outside IR35.
    You have got to be kidding right? I'd have a read of a couple of guides. It fails on a number of points.
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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    You have got to be kidding right? I'd have a read of a couple of guides. It fails on a number of points.
    Never knew that.
    Seems slightly nonsensical though.
    Personally I'd presume an open ended contract means they want someone under MOO anyway so I'd be wary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    Never knew that.
    Seems slightly nonsensical though.
    Personally I'd presume an open ended contract means they want someone under MOO anyway so I'd be wary.
    I think you've got MoO wrong as well in that example but an open ended gig messes with MoO, it's got to be D&C and confuses contract for and contract of service up let alone problems with part and parcel that can occur. It 'could' be managed with some very tight paperwork and working practices it the very fact they want it open ended would indicate they don't want to bother.

    We don't have enough detail but start with 'Open ended contract is a slam dunk inside IR35' and work upwards.

    Good point about the 24 month rule though.
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    Thanks to all for the quick replies so far!

    The contract contains clauses that are clear about things that really matter to IR35, such as control of own time, self direction, not considered an employee, right to substitution etc.

    It's also a serious / legit organisation. So I think they are just trying to be efficient (avoid renewals) and just do the paperwork once. Possibly they also want to lock in the rates.

    Indeed IR35 does not specify a duration. However, staying there a long time (up to 2 years potentially), could make a case for being "part & parcel" of the organisation. At the point , an open ended contract would not help. This is my main concern.

    There is a specific project to be delivered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lance View Post
    Never knew that.
    Seems slightly nonsensical though.
    Personally I'd presume an open ended contract means they want someone under MOO anyway so I'd be wary.
    Lance, can you stop posting on serious questions please, because you're an idiot. Thanks.
    Clarity is everything

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    I think in light of all this you need to convince them to make it a 23 month contract...

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