SJD passes contract on IR35 QDOS fail

[malvolio]

IPSE (note...) have been trying to do that for years but the agencies aren't interested. Why would they be, there are running a £28bn a year business built largely on a one-size-fits-all solution aimed at minimising all their risks. They are also selling employees, not service providers, so clearly they need their contracts to look like they do and not simple B2B arrangements.

It's working practices that determine your IR35 status, not the contract. We know enough to get the "bad" clauses negotiated out these days, then go on to work as though we were just another employee, demanding notice periods, getting upset when gigs finish early and taking on work not described in the contract schedule. And do you seriously think your IR35 friendly contract with the agency is reflected in the master agreement the agency has with the end client?

If you're getting a contract reviewed, then do it properly. Use someone who looks at the whole commercial arrangement not just the IR35 bits. Then it becomes worthwhile.

[SuperZ]

IPSE (note...) have been trying to do that for years but the agencies aren't interested. Why would they be, there are running a £28bn a year business built largely on a one-size-fits-all solution aimed at minimising all their risks. They are also selling employees, not service providers, so clearly they need their contracts to look like they do and not simple B2B arrangements.

It's working practices that determine your IR35 status, not the contract. We know enough to get the "bad" clauses negotiated out these days, then go on to work as though we were just another employee, demanding notice periods, getting upset when gigs finish early and taking on work not described in the contract schedule. And do you seriously think your IR35 friendly contract with the agency is reflected in the master agreement the agency has with the end client?

If you're getting a contract reviewed, then do it properly. Use someone who looks at the whole commercial arrangement not just the IR35 bits. Then it becomes worthwhile.

Must admit I don't care about notice periods or finishing early.
Regarding the whole commercial arrangement, so are you saying some or all of these contract review services actually get to see the contract between the agency and the client? I completely agree about the whole commercial arrangement thing. If they're not doing that then paying someone to just review your contract with the agency means nothing, really.

[SueEllen]

Must admit I don't care about notice periods or finishing early.
Regarding the whole commercial arrangement, so are you saying some or all of these contract review services actually get to see the contract between the agency and the client? I completely agree about the whole commercial arrangement thing. If they're not doing that then paying someone to just review your contract with the agency means nothing, really.

No they don't get to see the contract between the agency and client. What the better reviewers do is ask questions which can then ensure the agency puts in important terms in which actually mirror those terms.

Yes agencies use bog standard contracts but if a client - and lots of my clients seem to - ask for specific terms they insist are put in between the agency and the contractor. In many cases the resultant contract has a few clauses that are repetitive but in slightly different ways.

[SimonMac]

Why don't someone like the PCG work with agencies to "educate" them on contracts that are suitable for contractors? We can then have an approved list of "IR35 friendly" agencies which by it's nature would then force other agencies to want to be approved too as contractors will only want to work with those on the approved list. Surely, once an agency gets it right, it should just form a template moving forward? Easy

Because agents and IPSE are not looking out for the interests of the same people (I’ll give you a clue about the agents, contracts aren’t their clients)