How to decide whether to switch to permie?

[ginjar]

I have a possible job offer in Barcelona & after 7 years of contracting, I'm considering it. I know the city quite well (I spent 6 months there as an Erasmus student). In the UK, contracting has been my preferred way of working. If I had to sum up my reasons: better rates, more interesting projects, more time off and, lately, more remote working opportunities.

I wouldn't be considering the switch if it were a UK position but still need to decide whether it's worth leaving the perks of contracting.

For the past two years all my work has been remote (save about 15 days on site) - so that would be the main adjustment. The job would be office-based but it sounded like they would be open to some home working.

I don't know the exact details of the offer as they want to decide this after the interview in-person (a friend tells me this is not unusual in Spain).

I'm sure it will work out as less than what I earn contracting - but that's not a deal-breaker.

Benefits:

* Not having to look for new contracts.
* More straightforward contractual arrangement; not having to understand a new contract for each new project; less stress.
* More straightforward remuneration. Less time spent managing expenses/accounts/taxes.
* Hopefully a good office environment, easier sustaining work relationships
* Build up some track record of commitment (I have only ever worked briefly in a perm role, although one contract lasted two years). Some employers/agencies seem to think that if you only contract, your skills are stagnant. In my experience, you learn at least as much contracting. Technical training, for contractors, usually happens 'on the bench'. But it is harder to play a part in deciding long-term strategy.
* Possibly training/conferences/etc - I'm not sure how often these things happen in practice.
* Sick pay/ Holiday pay/ etc. (though I'm probably happier with a higher pay and covering these myself)

Drawbacks:

* Having to re-learn what it's like to commute and work in an office (which I would anyway unless I could find more remote work).
* Less pay
* Less time off
* Less clearly-defined boundaries viz. what I'm being paid to do.
* Harder to switch to new, potentially more attractive, projects
* Would have to cover some of the costs of running my ltd company this year (17-18) anyway, i.e. accountancy and insurance (as still waiting on client payment for last project).
* Would like to work on web apps that could generate some income on the side (ok, this might never actually happen), which is easier if running other business through a ltd company.
* Would have to get my head around the Spanish tax/legal system.

Ok, there's probably more on both sides of the ledger, but that's all I can come up with right now.

Forgetting about the "Spanish factor" (or not), has anyone else here faced a similar dilemma?

How would you go about weighing up the pros and cons?

[TheFaQQer]

How would you go about weighing up the pros and cons?

Just take the permie role and be done with it.

FTAOD, I didn't read anything other than the subject and the last line. But if you need the help of strangers on the internet to decide what to do, then take the permie job.

[MrMarkyMark]

FTFY

Just take the permie role if it pays you enough for your future Barcelona lifestyle and be done with it.

FTAOD, I didn't read anything other than the subject and the last line. But if you need the help of strangers on the internet to decide what to do, then take the permie job.

Otherwise I concur

[northernladuk]

How you see. That's how me and TF differ. I spend a bit more time on your post and consider the important aspects before jumping in comments, so... lets have a look....

I have a possible job offer in Barcelona <snip> TL;DR </snip>

Take it.

Sorted.

[squarepeg]

Benefits:

* Not having to look for new contracts.

Always talk to agents, make sure you tell the good ones to call you on a monthly basis. You have no job security.

* More straightforward contractual arrangement; not having to understand a new contract for each new project; less stress.

You learn what stress is when you learn what a quarterly or annual performance review feels like...

* More straightforward remuneration. Less time spent managing expenses/accounts/taxes.

True.

* Hopefully a good office environment, easier sustaining work relationships

Possibly. Just don't brag about being a contractor in your former life. Permies hate us. Underdress for the job. Learn to eat tulip food and drink cheap alcohol. You may discover how little people need to be happy and how much you hate knowing that the managers know that and are happy to throw you scraps and watch you fetch.

* Build up some track record of commitment (I have only ever worked briefly in a perm role, although one contract lasted two years). Some employers/agencies seem to think that if you only contract, your skills are stagnant. In my experience, you learn at least as much contracting. Technical training, for contractors, usually happens 'on the bench'. But it is harder to play a part in deciding long-term strategy.

You actually listen to what agents say about commitment or skills? That's just a negotiation strategy, they are trying to make you value yourself less. Whenever someone says "well, you only worked there for three weeks" I tell them that such was the length of the contract (which is true).

As for learning on the job, it depends on the company/team culture. Some are fine to let techies spend three days reading documentation, some expect you to do it over the weekend/after hours.

* Possibly training/conferences/etc - I'm not sure how often these things happen in practice.

Ask your colleagues.

* Sick pay/ Holiday pay/ etc. (though I'm probably happier with a higher pay and covering these myself)

You are thinking like a contractor. Stop. You are not going to get a higher salary in lieu of statutory benefits and whatever corporate "benefits" the HR comes up with. Not gonna happen just for you. :-)

Drawbacks:

* Having to re-learn what it's like to commute and work in an office (which I would anyway unless I could find more remote work).

The first step is the hardest...

* Less pay

You did check local taxes and the cost of living, didn't you?

* Less time off

Only if you become known as the guy who will do it all by himself.

* Less clearly-defined boundaries viz. what I'm being paid to do.

Welcome to the permie world.

* Harder to switch to new, potentially more attractive, projects

Only if you have long notice periods or if you let yourself settle there and be bound by a long term commitment like a 12-month house/flat rental agreement, loan, or if you buy property. If you avoid these you will be able to move to other places in Spain or other countries with relative ease.

* Would have to cover some of the costs of running my ltd company this year (17-18) anyway, i.e. accountancy and insurance (as still waiting on client payment for last project).

Check your contract and Spanish employment laws to make sure you are allowed to run a business while you are employed.

* Would like to work on web apps that could generate some income on the side (ok, this might never actually happen), which is easier if running other business through a ltd company.

Time to check your contract and Spanish employment laws. Just in case your employer wants to own every line of code you write outside of work hours.

* Would have to get my head around the Spanish tax/legal system.

Get a Spanish accountant. Should be easy to find one, because there is a rather large British community in Spain.

[nomadd]

I have a possible job offer in Barcelona & after 7 years of contracting, I'm considering it. I know the city quite well (I spent 6 months there as an Erasmus student). In the UK, contracting has been my preferred way of working. If I had to sum up my reasons: better rates, more interesting projects, more time off and, lately, more remote working opportunities.

I wouldn't be considering the switch if it were a UK position but still need to decide whether it's worth leaving the perks of contracting.

For the past two years all my work has been remote (save about 15 days on site) - so that would be the main adjustment. The job would be office-based but it sounded like they would be open to some home working.

I don't know the exact details of the offer as they want to decide this after the interview in-person (a friend tells me this is not unusual in Spain).

I'm sure it will work out as less than what I earn contracting - but that's not a deal-breaker.

Benefits:

* Not having to look for new contracts.
* More straightforward contractual arrangement; not having to understand a new contract for each new project; less stress.
* More straightforward remuneration. Less time spent managing expenses/accounts/taxes.
* Hopefully a good office environment, easier sustaining work relationships
* Build up some track record of commitment (I have only ever worked briefly in a perm role, although one contract lasted two years). Some employers/agencies seem to think that if you only contract, your skills are stagnant. In my experience, you learn at least as much contracting. Technical training, for contractors, usually happens 'on the bench'. But it is harder to play a part in deciding long-term strategy.
* Possibly training/conferences/etc - I'm not sure how often these things happen in practice.
* Sick pay/ Holiday pay/ etc. (though I'm probably happier with a higher pay and covering these myself)

Drawbacks:

* Having to re-learn what it's like to commute and work in an office (which I would anyway unless I could find more remote work).
* Less pay
* Less time off
* Less clearly-defined boundaries viz. what I'm being paid to do.
* Harder to switch to new, potentially more attractive, projects
* Would have to cover some of the costs of running my ltd company this year (17-18) anyway, i.e. accountancy and insurance (as still waiting on client payment for last project).
* Would like to work on web apps that could generate some income on the side (ok, this might never actually happen), which is easier if running other business through a ltd company.
* Would have to get my head around the Spanish tax/legal system.

Ok, there's probably more on both sides of the ledger, but that's all I can come up with right now.

Forgetting about the "Spanish factor" (or not), has anyone else here faced a similar dilemma?

How would you go about weighing up the pros and cons?

¿Qué?

(As other have mentioned, just do it. If it doesn't work out, come back to warm sunny Britain and the ever-available sky-high daily contract rates.)

[Antman]

No dependents? Go for it.

I worked in Madrid for 6 years for a consultancy, I could go through the points you've raised and haven't raised but at the end of the day think of it as a life experience.

[WordIsBond]

How would you go about weighing up the pros and cons?

I'd give each one a numerical value of importance on a scale of 1-10.

Then, I'd discard anything that wasn't at least a five in importance -- they aren't really important.

Then, I'd look at the things that I'd given a five and ask, "Did I make this a five because I knew I was getting rid of the things that are four or below?" If so, I'd get rid of that, too.

Then, when looking at what is left, if the weight is heavily one way, do that. If I still didn't know, I'd flip a coin. And if I didn't like what the coin said, I'd flip and flip again until I got the answer I liked.

Shorter version: Decide based on what is important to you, and if that doesn't clearly decide it, just do what you flippin' want to do.

[theroyale]

ginjar, it seems to me that while you've listed out in good detail the pros and cons of contracting/permiedom in general, you haven't said enough about your own priorities and desires.

You ask at the end of your post, "How would you go about weighing up the pros and cons?". I'd say that entirely depends on each person. One person's pro can be another's con, I think. For me contracting-all-the-way and never-permie-again is so blindingly obvious, but that's me: I've built my "real life" around the months I choose to take off between contracts, I like the flexibility, I like working for myself, I like not attending appraisals and that kind of BS, I run a mile from "job stability", I don't care about or need medical or dental or any of that, and I generally have a large(r) appetite for risk and newness (comparing myself to my peers, uni friends etc here). But then that's me. We don't know your views on things like that - and I'd suggest that if you're thinking of making the move from contracting back to permanence, its those sorts of things you'll have to think of.

You clearly have a good contracting life. If you're still considering a switch to a lesser-paid permanent position and having to work under someone again, there must be something in it for you that you're 1) not telling us because you feel its irrelevant, or 2) you haven't voiced out to yourself clearly enough.

Maybe Barcelona is attractive. Maybe you're getting tired of how comfortable contracting in the UK can be (for some of us anyway going by the many moaners on this forum). Maybe you just want a change. Whatever it is, it seems like you know instinctively which way you're going already.

[ginjar]

Thanks for the responses.

Of course it's a personal choice & I'm not trying to crowd-source this decision! OTOH, it's worth bouncing these thoughts off around to get some perspective.

Agree with @theroyale about all the points in favour of contracting. When people have asked me in the past why I contract rather than have a proper job with security, I give similar reasons. I like the flexibility, variety & better money. Yup, sounds like contracting is a no-brainer for you, they say (or words to that effect).

So ... at the moment, it is mostly the attraction of Spain and hitting the Catalonian beaches, etc etc. There isn't much of a contract market in Spain from what I gather, so if I want to spend time there its either this or b) finding more remote contracts that I fulfill from a sun-filled terrace (or mediterranean co-working) or c) spending some time working on my own projects & find some way for them to bring in revenue.

b) was actually plan A but it hasn't been as easy as I thought.
c) is attractive but risky & figure I should plug away at one of these ideas while earning before taking that leap.

b) and c) are related in that personal projects could partly be about self-promotion and reputation-building, and in that b) could finance c). If I could count on a steady (ish) stream of remote work and I knew what the tax situation would be (sounds complicated), that would be my preference. But I don't have assurance of either of those.

I'll meet them next week so the first step is seeing whether I like the vibe, the job's interesting and the conditions are good (& I get the offer).