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  1. #11

    Nervous Newbie


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    It is my fault I didn't get this sorted. All I can say is:

    * The contract had been extended many times, always with the same terms.
    * In the past, when I had sent the agency a copy to countersign, it often seemed to be more faff than it ought to have been.
    * I saw the signed copy sent by the client to the agency & guess I figured, well, we've all agreed to this, this is fine.
    * There was a lot else going on & we were discussing possible terms of future work, which didn't pan out, so my attention was mostly on that.

    Sorry if I was less than clear in the opening post viz. not insisting on getting [the contract] countersigned - obvs I am not feeling great about this - however it turns out, it will be a lesson learned.

    The fundamentals are: The client will pay the agency for the work & we have an agreement evidenced by emails, even if there is no physical signature on the document between me and the agency.

    How strong a position would I be in assuming, worst case scenario, that the agency didn't want to pay?

    I just want to know what I should do now and move on.
    Last edited by ginjar; 7th February 2017 at 23:53.

  2. #12

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    The fact you turned up and the agent acknowledged I believe means there is a contract in place with the previous terms still in effect so you are in the clear. This and the emails of acceptance etc. You should be fine. If it does all go Pete Tong you've just got more of an argument on than if you could rub their noses in to a paper document. You've given them leeway to try it on but you should come out OK.

    Just one thing. What exists between the client had absolutely nothing to do with you. I wouldn't use that any kind of comfort.
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  3. #13

    Nervous Newbie


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    Thanks, that's encouraging. Two questions,

    1. "The fact you turned up and the agent acknowledged I believe means there is a contract in place with the previous terms still in effect". - What do you mean by 'the agent acknowledged'? My time sheets have been signed off by the client (they are monthly and don't get signed off by agency, they just receive them at the end of the month and then bill the client. Are you suggesting that I need any further acknowledgement from the agency?

    2. "What exists between the client had absolutely nothing to do with you. I wouldn't use that any kind of comfort." Could you expand on this, please? I get that the specific contractual arrangement between the client and agency doesn't in itself entitle me to anything from the agency - except that: My name (and company) appear under the 'Contractor to provide services' section of their contract. It would be odd for the agency to bill the client in respect of their contract while denying that I was providing services on behalf of the agency at that time.

  4. #14

    Fingers like lightning


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    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    Mine are all electronic now so how would that work?
    When I did this last month, I sent them the unsigned contract and a screenshot of the portal's page showing 'Accepted' - the bank was OK with that.

  5. #15

    More time posting than coding


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    Quote Originally Posted by ginjar View Post
    Thanks, that's encouraging. Two questions,

    1. "The fact you turned up and the agent acknowledged I believe means there is a contract in place with the previous terms still in effect". - What do you mean by 'the agent acknowledged'? My time sheets have been signed off by the client (they are monthly and don't get signed off by agency, they just receive them at the end of the month and then bill the client. Are you suggesting that I need any further acknowledgement from the agency?
    Everyone has accepted the contract by conduct - have a Google for that, there's a case from donkeys years ago that set the precedent that hasn't been challenged successfully.

    You don't need anything more from the agency.
    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. But Gandhi never had to deal with HMRC

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by ginjar View Post
    Thanks, that's encouraging. Two questions,

    1. "The fact you turned up and the agent acknowledged I believe means there is a contract in place with the previous terms still in effect". - What do you mean by 'the agent acknowledged'? My time sheets have been signed off by the client (they are monthly and don't get signed off by agency, they just receive them at the end of the month and then bill the client. Are you suggesting that I need any further acknowledgement from the agency?
    You need to hit google and start doing a bit of reading...

    Contracting - Do I really need a contract? :: Contractor UK

    Not all apply to your situation directly being an extension but good reading on the whole.

    What you are interested in is an 'Implied Contract'

    What is an 'Implied Contract '
    An implied contract is a legal substitute for a contract. An implied contract is an agreement created by actions of the parties involved, but it is not written or spoken. This is a contract assumed to have been drawn. In this case, there is no written record nor any actual verbal agreement. A form of an implied contract is an implied warranty provided automatically by law. An implied warranty means that when a product is purchased, it is guaranteed to work for its ordinary purpose. For example, a refrigerator is fit to keep food cool.
    You turn up, agent doesn't tell you otherwise, client is happy to have you on site. You have an implied contract to do work and get paid. Terms will normally be the last seen by the parties. Have a google for the details. It's complex so again better to avoid this situations if at all possible.

    2. "What exists between the client had absolutely nothing to do with you. I wouldn't use that any kind of comfort." Could you expand on this, please? I get that the specific contractual arrangement between the client and agency doesn't in itself entitle me to anything from the agency - except that: My name (and company) appear under the 'Contractor to provide services' section of their contract. It would be odd for the agency to bill the client in respect of their contract while denying that I was providing services on behalf of the agency at that time.
    I am talking about the contractual arrangements between the client and the agency, their payment terms, when the payments are made etc. None of this is your business. All you need to focus on is the contractual relationship between you and the agency. For example when giving notice you give notice to the agent, it's them you have the contract with, it's just polite to tell the client. Just a basic understanding of the parties in the chain. Just because the client pays the agency it doesn't guarantee you will be paid etc.
    Last edited by Contractor UK; 28th March 2017 at 12:09.
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  7. #17

    Banned


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    Default Lesson learned

    I am new here and just starting a contracting biz with my stepdad. I just wanted to stop by and say thanks for posting this! I would think that it would be essential that all parties have signed the contract and have copies. With that being said though, in the beginning it just seemed like a minor detail when dealing with individuals, so we just stuck to estimates and when someone agreed we took that as our confirmation. I think we will start working out contracts from now on. Thanks again!

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbyj View Post
    I am new here and just starting a contracting biz with my stepdad. I just wanted to stop by and say thanks for posting this! I would think that it would be essential that all parties have signed the contract and have copies. With that being said though, in the beginning it just seemed like a minor detail when dealing with individuals, so we just stuck to estimates and when someone agreed we took that as our confirmation. I think we will start working out contracts from now on. Thanks again!
    If you are contracting then you can go look on the IPSE and QDOS websites. I believe both will offer templates but you might need to be an IPSE member to see theirs.
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  9. #19

    Nervous Newbie


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    I just wanted to close this off and note that I was paid as normal without any hassle.

    Thanks again for all the advice and the links to reading on implied contracts - it can't hurt to be more clued up though hopefully it is something I will avoid repeating!

  10. #20

    More time posting than coding

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    Just trying to get my countersigned contract. Agent is using an outfit called Sonovate for all their back office operations.

    Got this from them:

    "Unfortunately, the contracts have no place for counter signatures. Contracts are individually sent to the contractor and client"

    Will now have to do a screen grab of the online contract, paste it into Word and format it so I can sign it and send it over to the agent for a countersignature.

    Not the end of the world but talk about jobsworths....
    Last edited by Big Blue Plymouth; 13th March 2017 at 15:25.

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