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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Nope. at the moment there are 3 bits to IR35 and you only need to have one of them to be outside IR35.

    SDC is a given in what has been discussed. Mutual Obligation (MOO) is maybe but he still has substitution to keep him outside...
    Which has been stated as a sham by a judge in a case and even Kate C has stated it is a minor pointer so having using RoS when it's not been invoked could leave you on very shaky ground.

    I don't think we've any case law to show that having just one is enough without all the other elements around it either so 'only need one to be outside' still doesn't sound good enough to rest your laurels on IMO.
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  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by eek View Post
    Nope. at the moment there are 3 bits to IR35 and you only need to have one of them to be outside IR35.

    SDC is a given in what has been discussed. Mutual Obligation (MOO) is maybe but he still has substitution to keep him outside...

    Sorry, I don't really agree, of all 3 substitution is the weakest pointer anyway.

    As far as I understand it working practice trumps the contract, so I would hope the contract is water tight, so they don't go into the working practices.
    If they did I'm sure they would have a strong argument for him being inside.

    SDC (their side) and MOO (from his side) would be the arguments used.
    Possibly a sham contract substitution clause would be exposed when having working practice conversations, as well

    Never clear cut.

  3. #23

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    Here is one of the articles mentioned

    http://www.contractoruk.com/ir35/it_...uses_4670.html
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  4. #24

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    Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

    Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauldee View Post
    Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

    Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.

    So, you are declaring the contract inside then, obviously?

    IR35 certainly has ended things for some, often due to bankruptcy.
    As long as its "not the be and end all for you", I guess that doesn't matter.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauldee View Post
    Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

    Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.

    IR35 shouldn't be the be all and end all for any of us but it's far more desirable to be outside.
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

  7. #27
    eek
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    Quote Originally Posted by pauldee View Post
    Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

    Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.
    I see a lot of the above at current clientco people employed as no rights contractors as they can't even employ people on fixed term contracts for political reasons.

    Sadly that's not what i am. I'm a skilled specialist resource who would prefer zero politics (it's why I'm a contractor) and the ability to do the job I'm being paid to deliver
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauldee View Post
    Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

    Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.
    If we all did that the contracting would have died years ago and we'd all be on PAYE. Poor attitude that doesn't help those that want to do it properly and get paid the rates we do. Undermines everything we are using to fight HMRC.
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    If you think you can get something else then serve notice as it is fast becoming a job.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    I don't think we've any case law to show that having just one is enough without all the other elements around it either so 'only need one to be outside' still doesn't sound good enough to rest your laurels on IMO.
    Ready Mixed Concrete (South East) Ltd v Minister of Pensions and National Insurance shows that you need all three to be an employee. It's been there for 48 years now.

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