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  1. #21

    I live on CUK

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    Not true, complete nonsense, turning up on site is not a cart blanche as long as you haven't signed the contract.
    You do know how contracts work in England and Wales?

    You don't have to sign a contract to be bound by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    You can always turn around and walk off site if the conditions are wrong.
    No you can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    You can send an e-mail to this effect before you turn up.
    You can but as you accepted the contract it's meaningless.

    Anyway in this case the agent is on holiday and the OP is allergic to the telephone for some strange reason.
    "You’re just a bad memory who doesn’t know when to go away" JR

  2. #22

    My post count is Majestic

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    This is not true if you walk on site you have only agreed to the conditions that were communicated to you by the agent. You have not agreed to amendments, and you are perfectly within your rights to walk off site if conditions you are not aware of are suddenly sprung on you.

    You can in any event send an e-mail to this effect stating your understanding of the "unknown contract" conditions. The agency would be obliged to refute it, if they don't your conditions stand, when you set foot on site.

    Contracts are a two way street, and you have no advantage sitting at home as long as you communicate your intentions to the agency.
    Wouldn't that mean they are also within their rights not to pay you either?

    I'm not sure this is the situation here anyway, he does know the conditions, he just doesn't agree to them and want them changing.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011' - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by SueEllen View Post
    You do know how contracts work in England and Wales?

    You don't have to sign a contract to be bound by it.


    [/B]
    You're right but to agree to something by turning up on site it must have been communicated and it hasn't.

    Under contract law England and Wales, the agency can not suddenly introduce a clause and say it was agreed to because he turned up on site.

    as long as he sends an appropriate e-mail outlining his minimum conditions stating his understanding of the contract and conditions he will only be agreeing to those.

    If the agency does not refute his e-mail then the conditions stand or until a new agreement has been reached.

    If you're twiddling thumbs for a day or earning money you might as well earn money.
    Last edited by BlasterBates; 11th April 2016 at 12:58.
    Author of the best seller "How to get Poor quickly"

  4. #24

    My post count is Majestic

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    You're right but to agree to something by turning up on site it must have been communicated and it hasn't.
    Erm, yes it has

    The agency has drawn up a contract for a gig to start which In currently having reviewed by an IR35 specialist.

    Under contract law England and Wales, the agency can not suddenly introduce a clause and say it was agreed to because he turned up on site.

    as long as he sends an appropriate e-mail outlining his minimum conditions stating his understanding of the contract and conditions he will only be agreeing to those.

    If the agency does not refute his e-mail then the conditions stand or until a new agreement has been reached.

    If you're twiddling thumbs for a day or earning money you might as well earn money.
    He has a contract, he hasn't signed it. By turning up on site is him agreeing to it. Granted he's sent some interim changes but it's gonna be a right mess if he turns up on day one. Do his changes stick which means the original agents ones do? What was the last seen contract? Why on earth should the agent agree to change anything?

    Turning up he loses all his negotiating power and he cannot just stand up and leave if he doesn't like it. He shouldn't have turned up if it wasn't right.

    Turning up could open him up to a world of pain.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 11th April 2016 at 13:05.
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  5. #25

    Ddraig Goch


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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    You're right but to agree to something by turning up on site it must have been communicated and it hasn't.

    Under contract law England and Wales, the agency can not suddenly introduce a clause and say it was agreed to because he turned up on site.

    as long as he sends an appropriate e-mail outlining his minimum conditions stating his understanding of the contract and conditions he will only be agreeing to those.

    If the agency does not refute his e-mail then the conditions stand or until a new agreement has been reached.

    If you're twiddling thumbs for a day or earning money you might as well earn money.
    Didnt say that. But if something has been submitted to contractor, then contractor appears on site its been accepted as it is at that moment.
    Rhyddid i lofnod psychocandy!!!!

  6. #26

    Ddraig Goch


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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    Erm, yes it has





    He has a contract, he hasn't signed it. By turning up on site is him agreeing to it. Granted he's sent some interim changes but it's gonna be a right mess if he turns up on day one. Do his changes stick which means the original agents ones do? What was the last seen contract? Why on earth should the agent agree to change anything?

    Turning up he loses all his negotiating power and he cannot just stand up and leave if he doesn't like it. He shouldn't have turned up if it wasn't right.

    Turning up could open him up to a world of pain.
    NLUK is right. For a change ;-)

    This is also a favourite agent trick. Ever tried to get something changed before renewal?

    Agent will hide from you, deny all knowledge of emails, calls etc. They know once you're back on site its game over and business as usual.
    Rhyddid i lofnod psychocandy!!!!

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    You're right but to agree to something by turning up on site it must have been communicated and it hasn't.

    Under contract law England and Wales, the agency can not suddenly introduce a clause and say it was agreed to because he turned up on site.
    The contract is as it stands, nothing needs to be communicated, purely by attending the site the OP accepts the terms and conditions as laid out on the contract.
    The agency are not introducing anything, the terms will be as supplied to the OP, on the original contract.

    That all having being said, the OP shouldn't have ended up in this position, in the first place.

    In addition, the OP seems to possess next to no initiative to be able to rectify the situation, so would probably be more suitable for a perm role.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMarkyMark View Post
    The contract is as it stands, nothing needs to be communicated, purely by attending the site the OP accepts the terms and conditions as laid out on the contract.
    The agency are not introducing anything, the terms will be as supplied to the OP, on the original contract.

    That all having being said, the OP shouldn't have ended up in this position, in the first place.

    In addition, the OP seems to possess next to no initiative to be able to rectify the situation, so would probably be more suitable for a perm role.
    I agree but the key point he brought up was payment frequency which was not specified. The other one on the job title is pretty irrelevant.

    NLUK does raise a good point on IR35, which I personally wouldn't worry too much about as long as there was a sub clause and an obvious general intention to make it IR35 compliant.

    It's also a mess if he misses the handover.
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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlasterBates View Post
    I agree but the key point he brought up was payment frequency which was not specified. The other one on the job title is pretty irrelevant.

    NLUK does raise a good point on IR35, which I personally wouldn't worry too much about as long as there was a sub clause and an obvious general intention to make it IR35 compliant.

    It's also a mess if he misses the handover.
    The biggest issue here is that the OP cannot simply go on site with a caveat about IR35-negative conditions in the contract because the review has not been completed, so the clauses in dispute are currently unknown; how unprofessional would it look to turn up and not know what clauses are in dispute?

    Agents generally work late and getting an open dialogue now with someone in a position of authority at the agency should be the OP's priority if they intend to start tomorrow. Make it very clear to the agent that they are happy to start tomorrow pending the review. The agent will be keen to get it turned round this evening (as is the OP by the sound of it). If the review comes back before six, then as long as the amendments aren't too controversial, there's no reason that the contracts manager cannot approve them and get another fee earner (that's ultimately what we are for them) on site.
    The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist

  10. #30

    Fingers like lightning

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    Some people are stupid. As long as you're capable of communicating effectively, it's pretty easy to make clear that your being on site is without prejudice, that you've not accepted the contract, and you're simply turning up in the spirit of getting the work done.

    If a client needs me pretty urgently, and I feel the circumstance is right, it's pretty easy to attend client site without all the terms and conditions being in place. Is it ideal? No. Should you ideally work to have the contract in place? Yes. But does stepping on site magically mean you've agreed to the terms presented to you? No, not if you've been clear that you are still reviewing the contract.

    It really isn't difficult. I've done this with a number of clients, and have managed to get the terms I need amended changed to my satisfaction without any problems whatsoever.

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