The Experiment - Agencies charging 30% - Live Test Scenario

[mudskipper]

Both clients want me as a contractor while they recruit permanent staff.

Probably worth reading up on IR35

... why bother posting on a forum about contractor jobs when you are below the legal age to accept an employment contract?

Employment contract? Definitely worth reading up on IR35.

[GideonTheIdiot]

+1. We pay 12.5% but our volume is high. 15-20% is fair. Anything higher and the client's expectations are set too high by the agency's price point.

Thanks clearedforlanding that was spot on as well.

My one-man band agent takes 10%, but only when he wants to keep a client happy / get turnover on his account etc. He says he breaks even or makes nothing on 10%.

[GideonTheIdiot]

Probably worth reading up on IR35

There's no danger of going over 2 years, both contracts are to fill in until 2 permies are recruited, a senior and a junior, so I'm doing a hybrid of both permanent job descriptions - and they are not even sure about whether they will recruit the 2 permanent staff or try to restructure some other way.

Don't you have to be directly replacing one person and doing everything they would do under direction and control etc etc. I don't think I'm replacing any one individual, but I will read the IR35 guides on here again. It's possible the end clients think they are getting a "temp" employed directly by an agency on PAYE terms.

Employment contract? Definitely worth reading up on IR35.

I just meant being employed in general terms - children aren't allowed to work for money, so why are there children posting on a forum about paid work?

[NotAllThere]

...
I just meant being employed in general terms - children aren't allowed to work for money, so why are there children posting on a forum about paid work?

You can stop the now.

Further, can I remind everyone that if you suspect someone is a sockie, then the correct approach is to report the post?

[mudskipper]

There's no danger of going over 2 years, both contracts are to fill in until 2 permies are recruited, a senior and a junior, so I'm doing a hybrid of both permanent job descriptions - and they are not even sure about whether they will recruit the 2 permanent staff or try to restructure some other way.

Don't you have to be directly replacing one person and doing everything they would do under direction and control etc etc.

No, and two years doesn't come into it.

[SimonMac]

Remember they are not taking 30% of your money, you are taking 70% of theirs, they have the contract with the client not you.

Also why should knowing what the agent is getting affect what you want? If you are contracting just for the money I can probably understand this, I negotiate a rate with an agent that I am happy with, what they charge the client is of no interest to me as I will not entertain an offer below what I consider to be my floor. Would you want to pay less for a Big Mac if you knew it only cost 10p to make rather than £1?

And another thing, I don't like the idea's of percentages as depending on the rate the numbers are meaningless, on a £250 a day contract (to the client) 30% to a pimp (£75) could be considered acceptable as again they will have a minimum that is worth their while.

Although lastly I have just thought why am I bothering trying to prepare a well thought out piece of prose on a thread that is complete bulltulip, I often forget that even the biggest fantasist on here is completely different in real life, which is why I assume MF doesn't go to any of the social meets.

[fool]

Remember they are not taking 30% of your money, you are taking 70% of theirs, they have the contract with the client not you.

Also why should knowing what the agent is getting affect what you want? If you are contracting just for the money I can probably understand this, I negotiate a rate with an agent that I am happy with, what they charge the client is of no interest to me as I will not entertain an offer below what I consider to be my floor. Would you want to pay less for a Big Mac if you knew it only cost 10p to make rather than £1?

And another thing, I don't like the idea's of percentages as depending on the rate the numbers are meaningless, on a £250 a day contract (to the client) 30% to a pimp (£75) could be considered acceptable as again they will have a minimum that is worth their while.

Although lastly I have just thought why am I bothering trying to prepare a well thought out piece of prose on a thread that is complete bulltulip, I often forget that even the biggest fantasist on here is completely different in real life, which is why I assume MF doesn't go to any of the social meets.

I used to care about the agents cut. I've since came to realise their cut doesn't affect me. If I want a pay bump, I ask for it. Whether the agent successfully passes it on or not is immaterial to what myCo pulls in. In fact them passing it on is a good thing because it ensures there some fat to chomp when my greedy ass inevitably wants another bump. Knowing their margin just means you can negotiate with the extra bit of confidence the knowledge brings you.

[SimonMac]

I used to care about the agents cut. I've since came to realise their cut doesn't affect me. If I want a pay bump, I ask for it. Whether the agent successfully passes it on or not is immaterial to what myCo pulls in. In fact them passing it on is a good thing because it ensures there some fat to chomp when my greedy ass inevitably wants another bump. Knowing their margin just means you can negotiate with the extra bit of confidence the knowledge brings you.

Knowing the agents rate (or the rate of other contractors) has no positive worth, you resent someone else is getting more money than you.

I don't know everyone on the forum so I apologise for making a sweeping statement, but those contractors I personally know that I would believe has what it takes to play hard ball with an agent or walk have been contracting long enough to

A) have a decent warchest behind them so they can walk so will walk away from an offer that doesn't suit them

B) know the game well enough to understand how it's played so only care about their rate anyway which they are already happy with when first negotiating

C) and this is the most important one, never ever ever mention rate or agent cuts on here because they know it's no ones business but theirs.

Those who know keep quite, those who don't shout loudly

[pr1]

Knowing the agents rate (or the rate of other contractors) has no positive worth

Say you're on £300/day. Knowing the agents rate means you know whether the client thinks he is getting a £700/day guy or a £350/day guy, that will alter their expectation. You might be getting a load of sh*t because you're "under-performing" as they're expecting the world

[OnceStonedRose]

Say you're on £300/day. Knowing the agents rate means you know whether the client thinks he is getting a £700/day guy or a £350/day guy, that will alter their expectation. You might be getting a load of sh*t because you're "under-performing" as they're expecting the world

From the other side, surely a development manager must see the adverts placed by agencies for folks to fill their needs? If they spot the role advertised at £300 per day when they've been told that they are going to pay £700, do they not get any bells ringing, i.e. I'm gonna get a monkey here.

I would if I was a dev manager and I saw it.