Contracting risks...

[BrilloPad]

I'll bet there are many more contractors giving notice just to get a little bit extra for himself than there are clients that use it because they have a genuine business reason the contract can no longer continue. That's the difference. We abuse the notice period much more than clients do.

Clients have notice periods in place as they expect you to honour the contract on the same terms as they do. They will only invoke notice when money runs out, work is finished or the contractor is crap.

One of the worst posts I have read in professional forums. Are you MF's sockie? Actually MF would post far better than that.

Getting extra money is a perfectly acceptable business reason. In my experience from talking to people, clients do it just as often. I am expecting to be terminated any time - I was aware at the start my gig might be outsourced to Mumbai. I don't care - and I would happily do the same to them as well.

In my last role I was permanent and got made redundant. My role was outsourced. Only 18 months before they were rolling out the red carpet for me. They could not get my skills. I had worked there for 10 years on and off as permanent and contract.

You might live in a 1990s time bubble where companies can be trusted. Time has moved on. You need to move along, man up and get with the times. Or just stay where you - walking down to the corner shop in your cardigan, with your zimmer frame, to buy some wurthers original.

Is there a first timers guide wiki I can add this to? Then I can tell NLUK to read the first timers guide.

I would post certain emoticons in this thread which would sum up my feelings - but apparently there are unwritten rules on what emoticons can be used in professional forums.

BP
For the OP good luck!

[MrMarkyMark]

Good points from LM and NLUK.

Obviously no one can say they will never do it, but, IMO, should be very much the exception rather than the rule.

Sometimes abnormally high rates can be due to toxic projects, where you may actually earn less that year, if it gets canned.
As day rates are directly linked to the size of your anatomy, people get tempted, but I wonder how many "losers" we have each year because of this?

All the above points with regards to notice, given to the contractor, I have heard and occasionally seen.
I can honestly say that I have only had one pulled short once and it was by someone who has behaved in a shady manner before.

This is over 15 years.

I've never canned one early either, maybe karma, as others have mentioned

Edit:- although Brillos experiences are far different. I do take on board the outsourcing point though...

[BrilloPad]

Good points from LM and NLUK.

Obviously no one can say they will never do it, but, IMO, should be very much the exception rather than the rule.

Sometimes abnormally high rates can be due to toxic projects, where you may actually earn less that year, if it gets canned.
As day rates are directly linked to the size of your anatomy, people get tempted, but I wonder how many "losers" we have each year because of this?

All the above points with regards to notice, given to the contractor, I have heard and occasionally seen.
I can honestly say that I have only had one pulled short once and it was by someone who has behaved in a shady manner before.

This is over 15 years.

I've never canned one early either, maybe karma, as others have mentioned

Edit:- although Brillos experiences are far different. I do take on board the outsourcing point though...

If people want to see a contract through then fine. But it is purely business. Not personal. Emotion should not come into it.

I find it fascinating on a board with so many people who are non religious, that karma is talked about. But that is something for general.

[Yonmons]

One of the worst posts I have read in professional forums. Are you MF's sockie? Actually MF would post far better than that.

Getting extra money is a perfectly acceptable business reason. In my experience from talking to people, clients do it just as often. I am expecting to be terminated any time - I was aware at the start my gig might be outsourced to Mumbai. I don't care - and I would happily do the same to them as well.

In my last role I was permanent and got made redundant. My role was outsourced. Only 18 months before they were rolling out the red carpet for me. They could not get my skills. I had worked there for 10 years on and off as permanent and contract.

snip!

Good Post, and I totally agree with the sentiment. Quite clearly some contractors on here earn a lot of mula per day, I am in Contracting and have been 15 years, I remain in it as it gives me a better standard of living, and more flexibility but I dont earn the big time money.

My gig has a 2 week notice period "EITHER WAY" so that means me as well as them. Presently the clientco is making permi staff redunant faster than you can shake a tulipty stick. They had a "careers day" for Permies this week, I have heard the building we are in is under a "strategic review" presently four floors are closed and stripped (apparently they dont have to pay business rates) Our "team" was off shored earlier in the year but put a lower price in (took a pay cut) to keep in work. Use my 2 weeks notice should a more suitable role come up ? Too right mate !

(and thats after 4 gigs with my present clientco)

[psychocandy]

Ah, the absolutely useless plumber analogy.

If a builder is constructing your new extension and signs up to do the lot but leaves before he puts the roof on to go to a better paid gig, you'd be calling him all sorts of names.

Point being, reputation. He won't get a building gig in your area again if people know he jumps ship before completing the job. It's unprofessional.



There are of course exceptional reasons (illness to self or nearest and dearest, severe homesickness, etc.) but to take a gig knowing full well that you'd jump ship for a better one (unless you're at rock bottom, zero warchest, etc.) is, imo, unprofessional.

I've seen outsourcing in a company and your final paragraph proved the point about what I was saying, so not sure on your point.

Builder analogy is the same. If he hands you a contract AT THE START stating that he can terminate the contract at any time and get paid up for the work done, which may leave the work unfinished AND YOU AGREE TO THIS, then its no good moaning about it afterwards.

Like I said its up to you to A) Tell builder no to that clause or B) get a different builder.

How its unprofessional is beyond me when you're invoking a legal clause in the contract.

And I know its different but clients would invoke without a thought if it suited them. Yes we all moan about it - look at certain banks and they're rate cuts - but doesnt stop people going to work there....

[psychocandy]

I'll bet there are many more contractors giving notice just to get a little bit extra for himself than there are clients that use it because they have a genuine business reason the contract can no longer continue. That's the difference. We abuse the notice period much more than clients do. Contractors jump much more often for much less and the reasons are rarely driven by business need, more out of greed. Clients don't take on contractors in the knowledge they will pull the notice but many contractors do.

Clients have notice periods in place as they expect you to honour the contract on the same terms as they do. They will only invoke notice when money runs out, work is finished or the contractor is crap. It's not unreasonable for them to expect the same in return. Invoking for £20 a day more or a bit closer to home just isn't the same. That is where the unprofessionalism of the contractor comes out. He's mercenary and isn't being driven by business which the clients are...

Yes there are many nuances around this like the banks invoking it across the board but on the whole I reckon it's us that are more the problem than the clients. Just because there is a notice period in it does not mean you can use it willy nilly as you fancy to get another gig...

Can you? Yes.. Is it professional? No it is not.

In the comments the posters have made on this thread they are not saying he shouldn't, they are just saying it's karma it's gone tits up. Nothing wrong with that.

Ah I've never said you should invoke it willy nilly. Its going to have consequences possibly. I agree if you keep jumping for £20 its going to come back to bite you.

So yes but you still need to think of yourself. If you consider all things, like agent is going to be upset, client is going to be upset I might never work there again, is it still worth invoking because the new gig is that much better for me? If so then I see no issues.

Those who say I would never invoke a clause are A) deluded or B) taking it or C) lying.

Bit harsh on the OP as wel I thought... If he wants to do it then its legal and he has to face consequences. Having a dig is a bit off.

[BrilloPad]

And I know its different but clients would invoke without a thought if it suited them. Yes we all moan about it - look at certain banks and they're rate cuts - but doesnt stop people going to work there....

I forgot about the rate cuts! Further proof that there is no room for sentiment in business these days.

I want to jump in my time machine and go back to 1985.

[psychocandy]

I'd like to see Psychocandys posts if this became as common as contractors bailing for 20 quid more.

LOL. Thats a bit naughty mind isn't it?

[MrMarkyMark]

My gig has a 2 week notice period "EITHER WAY" so that means me as well as them. Presently the clientco is making permi staff redunant faster than you can shake a tulipty stick. They had a "careers day" for Permies this week, I have heard the building we are in is under a "strategic review" presently four floors are closed and stripped (apparently they dont have to pay business rates) Our "team" was off shored earlier in the year but put a lower price in (took a pay cut) to keep in work. Use my 2 weeks notice should a more suitable role come up ? Too right mate !

Now, exercising your notice, on a 2 weekly rolling arrangement, I certainly wouldn't have any issues with.

[psychocandy]

One of the worst posts I have read in professional forums. Are you MF's sockie? Actually MF would post far better than that.

Getting extra money is a perfectly acceptable business reason. In my experience from talking to people, clients do it just as often. I am expecting to be terminated any time - I was aware at the start my gig might be outsourced to Mumbai. I don't care - and I would happily do the same to them as well.

In my last role I was permanent and got made redundant. My role was outsourced. Only 18 months before they were rolling out the red carpet for me. They could not get my skills. I had worked there for 10 years on and off as permanent and contract.

You might live in a 1990s time bubble where companies can be trusted. Time has moved on. You need to move along, man up and get with the times. Or just stay where you - walking down to the corner shop in your cardigan, with your zimmer frame, to buy some wurthers original.

Is there a first timers guide wiki I can add this to? Then I can tell NLUK to read the first timers guide.

I would post certain emoticons in this thread which would sum up my feelings - but apparently there are unwritten rules on what emoticons can be used in professional forums.

BP
For the OP good luck!

BP I love you