In case you missed it, Hammond has caved in. Hard Brexit it is.
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post
    The outcome being that they had a far higher share of the vote than they've had since Thatcher in the early 80s, which ordinarily would have delivered a crushing majority?

    It turns out the referendum was a lose-lose scenario. If we voted to remain, that would have been incorrectly viewed as acceptance of the EU push towards further political integration and ultimately a single country called Europe. If we voted to leave, there was no 'stay in the EEA' option, and so the Tories are therefore pushing towards the only other option available - 'leave the EU and the EEA'.

    What really grinds my gears about the ultra-Brexiters (and saying this as someone who voted to leave) is their whole 'cake and eat it' attitude. The fact is, they want WTO rules and the WTO rules are that the EU cannot treat the UK differently than any other country it deals with on a WTO basis. So it wont be the EU saying "no, you can't sell your food to us, this is us being spiteful", it is Britain saying "we want to leave the EU, which will make us a non-EU country, and therefore we will be bound to the EU's rules on dealing with non-EU countries". By WTO rules, the EU is not allowed anything else without a comprehensive treaty.

    The quicker the thick, pig headed, ultra ignorant ultra-Brexiters get this (and unfortunately the media who steered them down that path will not be correcting them any time soon) the better. I'm fairly sure all the politicians get this, and playing dumb on this keeps the morons on their side.

    Three options only:

    Remain in the EU
    Leave the EU, join EFTA and remain in the EEA. We continue playing football.
    Leave the EU, leave the EEA. And that means Britain decided it wasn't playing any more, so the EU is taking its ball home.
    Which one do you think is most likely?

  2. #12

    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

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    Remember those innocent days when even the hardcore Brexiteers had moments of lucidity?

    Only a madman would actually leave the Market
    Owen Paterson MP, Vote Leave backer
    Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market
    Daniel Hannan MEP
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopper View Post
    Three options only:

    [1] Remain in the EU
    [2] Leave the EU, join EFTA and remain in the EEA. We continue playing football.
    [3] Leave the EU, leave the EEA. And that means Britain decided it wasn't playing any more, so the EU is taking its ball home.
    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGorilla View Post
    Which one do you think is most likely?
    Prior to Sunday's joint article by Hammond and Fox in the Telegraph, I thought it was (2) on the list, now it looks certain to be (3).

    Mainly I think to keep the Tories united i.e. party above country.
    Last edited by sasguru; 14th August 2017 at 13:04.
    "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

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    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    Prior to Sunday's joint article by Hammond and Fox in the Telegraph, I thought it was (2) on the list, now it looks certain to be (3).

    Mainly I think to keep the Tories united i.e. party above country.
    It also gives a good opportunity for the financial class (e.g. Rees-Mogg) to profit from the chaos, and then the UK can rebuild around a low wage, low rights, low tax, poor public service model. Corbyn will be looking particularly silly at that point.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladyuk View Post
    It also gives a good opportunity for the financial class (e.g. Rees-Mogg) to profit from the chaos, and then the UK can rebuild around a low wage, low rights, low tax, poor public service model. Corbyn will be looking particularly silly at that point.
    Brexit, in the bigger picture, is one elite replacing another, using the many useful idiots in this country to further their own aims.
    Sadly I think the new elite will prove to be more nefarious and rapacious than the old when it comes to exploiting the working class.
    "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

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    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    Brexit, in the bigger picture, is one elite replacing another, using the many useful idiots in this country to further their own aims.
    Sadly I think the new elite will prove to be more nefarious and rapacious than the old when it comes to exploting the working class.
    Yes, the contemporary Euro-Úlite is much less rapacious than the equivalent Anglo-Úlite (although the Troika does have its moments). Which was what Remain was always about for me - I have no special love for the EU as an institution, although I am internationalist in my sentiment and I value my EU citizenship (which I can retain).

    Of course, I had no idea quite how spectacularly the UK would screw this up. I am starting to think that nobody, even maybe Farage, really expected Brexit, and they all much preferred their virtue-signalling victim status within the EU. A bit like how the Labour left is always more comfortable in opposition.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasguru View Post
    Prior to Sunday's joint article by Hammond and Fox in the Telegraph, I thought it was (2) on the list, now it looks certain to be (3).

    Mainly I think to keep the Tories united i.e. party above country.
    Interesting. I still think the likelihood is in this order; most likely 2, then 1, and 3 a distant third.

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    Quote Originally Posted by northernladyuk View Post
    I am starting to think that nobody, even maybe Farage, really expected Brexit, and they all much preferred their virtue-signalling victim status within the EU. A bit like how the Labour left is always more comfortable in opposition.
    You're starting to think this?
    Did you see BoJo's and Gove's faces the morning after the referendum?
    Like they'd swallowed a wasp.
    Neither of them were/are stupid enough to think this was a good idea, but they're committed now and so have to double-down.
    Liam Fox, on the other hand, really is stupid enough to believe that the UK's pie-in-the sky trade deals might compensate for EU trade.
    Last edited by sasguru; 14th August 2017 at 13:39.
    "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGorilla View Post
    Interesting. I still think the likelihood is in this order; most likely 2, then 1, and 3 a distant third.
    In the end you're probably right but it will be a long and winding road and there may well be some chaos before the UK actually gets there.
    Author of the best seller "How to get Poor quickly"

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurpleGorilla View Post
    Interesting. I still think the likelihood is in this order; most likely 2, then 1, and 3 a distant third.
    You're assuming the Tory party can put sensible policy and country above party. They can't.
    "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."

    Winston Churchill

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