Newbie – what I’ve learned so far.

[TykeMerc]

Oh the one thing you haven't posted that you've learned so far, but you're probably well aware of....

If it looks too good to be true then it probably is and it will come back to kick you in the dangly bits

Seriously though, HMRC are pretty unpleasant people to deal with so play it safe and be quite conservative in your tax planning.

[malvolio]

Originally Posted by Lewis

If only it was that simple :-)

An alternative to consider ...get insurance through QDOS, as with its cover, in the event that your IR35 case is lost they pay your taxes, penalties and interest (as opposed to PCG cover which will just pay your legal fees). You'll also get three FREE contract reviews each year with QDOS.

I found the cheapest insurance to be QDOS, but if you work on trading systems it costs more and I found Caunce O'Hara to be cheaper.

It is that simple. Young Lewis continues to miss the point that PCG is not an insurance salesman, it bundles in free insurance with the membership. And the membership fee gives you access to around 6 times its value in added services, not to mention all the information available to you. Go visit the website (but spare some time for it, until they get it rewritten it's a bit of a mess!).

By all means shop around for PI/ELI/EI insurance, but QDOS and PCG are not competitors

[Lewis]

Originally Posted by malvolio

It is that simple. Young Lewis continues to miss the point that PCG is not an insurance salesman, it bundles in free insurance with the membership. And the membership fee gives you access to around 6 times its value in added services, not to mention all the information available to you. Go visit the website (but spare some time for it, until they get it rewritten it's a bit of a mess!).

By all means shop around for PI/ELI/EI insurance, but QDOS and PCG are not competitors

Grow up big boy. "Young" Lewis is a member of the PCG but has QDOS insurance as well as he thinks it's better than that provided via the PCG. Plus in his experience QDOS' helpline has been more helpful than the PCG helplines. You are a PCG salesman, I'm just voicing my opinion. Plus I would dispute your 6 times value in added services blurb. I'm only in the PCG to support contractors, I get virtually zero back. The "guides" are useful for first timers but the PCG forum is too messy for me to use. And before you say I should report problems with the helpline I did PM the person who asked for feedback (wattaj) and got no reply.

[malvolio]

Well I won't argue here, but I'm not a salesman for the PCG, I'm one of the early joiners and have spent most of the last 10 years trying to get them to do what is says on their tin.

And as I have said several times before, not only to you, QDOS insurance is largely redundant if you have PCG cover unless, and only unless, your situation is so marginal you need to cover back taxes resulting from a failed IR35 defence. At running odds of 6 in 1600, with two of those under appeal, and with the defence knowledge you can glean from the PCG fora and related sources, I remain to be convinced.

And what I do find irksome is a PCG member advising a newbie that the PCG is not the best option for the wrong reasons - that appears to show a lack of knowledge of what they actually are about and is not helpful for people who are new to the game. I'd rather they were clear that PCG is not a commercial insurance provider, then go and research the market for suppliers.

[Lewis]

Originally Posted by malvolio

And as I have said several times before, not only to you, QDOS insurance is largely redundant if you have PCG cover unless, and only unless, your situation is so marginal you need to cover back taxes resulting from a failed IR35 defence. At running odds of 6 in 1600, with two of those under appeal, and with the defence knowledge you can glean from the PCG fora and related sources, I remain to be convinced.

That is just your opinion and things may change significantly after the DragonFly ruling. Other people (like me) might prefer the security offered by knowing they are completely protected from IR35. I can think of at least 6 other people who with hindsight may have opted for the QDOS policy.

Originally Posted by malvolio

And what I do find irksome is a PCG member advising a newbie that the PCG is not the best option for the wrong reasons - that appears to show a lack of knowledge of what they actually are about and is not helpful for people who are new to the game. I'd rather they were clear that PCG is not a commercial insurance provider, then go and research the market for suppliers.

Excuse me ... I said "an alternative to consider" not "don't join the PCG". Yes, in retrospect I could have pointed out the benefits of the PCG (one huge one being them getting a 1 year reprieve on Income Shifting) and that you could be in it and have QDOS insurance like me. So I am saying that now. What I find irksome is that the mere mention of QDOS and you throw your toys out of the pram and in my opinion out of everyone on this forum you probably top the list for unhelpful comments to newbies.

We're all adults and can make our own decisions when provided with all the information. Like it or not a lot of people join the PCG just for the insurance. Informing them of other providers is simply being helpful and enabling them to make a decision with all the facts. But yes the more members the PCG has the better for us all, so I would advise people to join.

[malvolio]

Thank you - fully agree with all of that*. Still haven't really got the hang of Malvolio, have you...


*apart from the bit about "unhelpful to newbies". I'm unhelpful to people who can't be bothered to do the basic research (although you could argue that in itself is actually a kind of help...), and that includes non-newbies. Everyone else gets help, but some don't necessarily recognise it; look at the MTM crowd for example...

[pmeswani]

Originally Posted by malvolio

Thank you - fully agree with all of that*. Still haven't really got the hang of Malvolio, have you...


*apart from the bit about "unhelpful to newbies". I'm unhelpful to people who can't be bothered to do the basic research (although you could argue that in itself is actually a kind of help...), and that includes non-newbies. Everyone else gets help, but some don't necessarily recognise it; look at the MTM crowd for example...

I'm happy to put my hand up and accept my lazyness and ignorance. I am one of those people who wouldn't know how to research answers from time to time, or know how to interpret the info correctly. I'm slowly (but surely) learning to ask the right type of questions, and am learning it quite painfully. Would be on the same level as someone grabbing my privates and juggling them a few times.

[malvolio]

Originally Posted by pmeswani

I'm happy to put my hand up and accept my lazyness and ignorance. I am one of those people who wouldn't know how to research answers from time to time, or know how to interpret the info correctly. I'm slowly (but surely) learning to ask the right type of questions, and am learning it quite painfully. Would be on the same level as someone grabbing my privates and juggling them a few times.

Yeah, but you're (mostly) one of those who asks focused questions. What I hate (and I suspect I'm not alone) is the "Hi guys, having a bash at contracting, what do I need to do now" merchants... Thankfully they seem to be a dying breed!

[pmeswani]

Originally Posted by malvolio

Yeah, but you're (mostly) one of those who asks focused questions. What I hate (and I suspect I'm not alone) is the "Hi guys, having a bash at contracting, what do I need to do now" merchants... Thankfully they seem to be a dying breed!

I hear what you are saying. Some people are specialists in their own area and want to monopolise on their skills... they get the message about "getting rich quick whilst contracting", but wouldn't know how to do the business side of things. I am fortunate in that I visited Business Startup Show (partly clueless at the time at what I wanted to do). So I knew a little bit about formation, VAT, etc.... when it came to finally setting up.. but not the full logistics to do it and understand it all myself. I guess a lot of new peeps are in the same boat. We have to remember that we have been through the pain of starting up... the newbies don't have the same exposure. I know it is frustrating saying the same things over and over again... but it's a necessary evilish pain (different people will have different opinions).