IR35 Forum - July minutes
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Posts 1 to 10 of 46
  1. #1

    Faqqed Off

    TheFaQQer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    36,015
    Thanks (Given)
    372
    Thanks (Received)
    1267
    Likes (Given)
    3628
    Likes (Received)
    3152

    Default IR35 Forum - July minutes

    Minutes from the July IR35 forum can be found here.

    Some interesting things in there, including:

    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."

    "Concern that some agencies were reverting to paying the workers as sole traders in order not be caught by the reforms."

    "Conflicting anecdotal suggestions that workers are being forced to accept lower rates when engaged by the public sector, and also that some were negotiating higher rates to compensate for the reforms. HMRC was not aware of any significant movement in contractor rates, but this is a contractual matter."

    "It was noted that there had been no IR35 tribunal cases since September 2011. AR confirmed that there are cases that are likely to be litigated in the near future."

    "Members asked if the recent reforms in the public sector would be extended to the private sector. HMRC explained that the current focus is on embedding the recent reform, and that it was not possible to comment on the plans of the new administration. However, we do of course want to see compliance improve in the private sector."
    Best Forum Advisor, 2014
    Work in the public sector? You can read my FAQ here
    Click here to get 15% off your first year's IPSE membership

  2. #2

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    33,277
    Thanks (Given)
    137
    Thanks (Received)
    1360
    Likes (Given)
    1732
    Likes (Received)
    5827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Minutes from the July IR35 forum can be found here.


    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."
    ."
    I think I'd have stood up and left the meeting at that point. No point listening to anything else if thst the rubbish they are going to open with.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011' - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  3. #3

    Old Greg is my bitch's bitch

    northernladyuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Working the streets of your imagination
    Posts
    7,282
    Thanks (Given)
    979
    Thanks (Received)
    496
    Likes (Given)
    344
    Likes (Received)
    2018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Minutes from the July IR35 forum can be found here.

    Some interesting things in there, including:

    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."

    "Concern that some agencies were reverting to paying the workers as sole traders in order not be caught by the reforms."

    "Conflicting anecdotal suggestions that workers are being forced to accept lower rates when engaged by the public sector, and also that some were negotiating higher rates to compensate for the reforms. HMRC was not aware of any significant movement in contractor rates, but this is a contractual matter."

    "It was noted that there had been no IR35 tribunal cases since September 2011. AR confirmed that there are cases that are likely to be litigated in the near future."

    "Members asked if the recent reforms in the public sector would be extended to the private sector. HMRC explained that the current focus is on embedding the recent reform, and that it was not possible to comment on the plans of the new administration. However, we do of course want to see compliance improve in the private sector."
    ...

    James Hacker: The department prepared this. "No loss of amenity" it says.
    Sir Humphrey Appleby: No, Minister, not no loss of amenity; no *significant* loss of amenity.
    James Hacker: Well, same thing.
    Sir Humphrey Appleby: On the contrary, there is all the difference in the world. Almost anything can be attacked as a loss of amenity, and almost anything can be defended as not a significant loss of amenity, which seems to signify that one should appreciate the significance of significant.
    Where there's muck there's brass.

  4. #4

    Double Godlike!

    malvolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Walking in the garden, dreaming of Olivia...
    Posts
    10,288
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    208
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    723

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    I think I'd have stood up and left the meeting at that point. No point listening to anything else if thst the rubbish they are going to open with.
    Depends on your definition of "contractors". HMRC will see that as anyone not employed by the Civil Service of any flavour. So the 10ks of freelance contractors are rather overshadowed by the 100ks of Big4 consultants and all the other smaller suppliers.

    But in terms of its stated purpose, the IR35 Forum has ceased to have any real meaning and its pointless maintaining a one-sided dialogue.
    Blog? What blog...?

  5. #5

    Contractor Among Contractors

    ladymuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    London
    Posts
    1,613
    Thanks (Given)
    142
    Thanks (Received)
    101
    Likes (Given)
    687
    Likes (Received)
    327

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    ...

    But in terms of its stated purpose, the IR35 Forum has ceased to have any real meaning and its pointless maintaining a one-sided dialogue.
    With my tin foil hat on, I suspect that is HMRC's aim.
    I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage
    Me on LinkedIn | 15% off your first year's IPSE membership

  6. #6

    TripleIronDad

    BrilloPad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Littering gel wrappers in Surrey
    Posts
    95,894
    Thanks (Given)
    20585
    Thanks (Received)
    5297
    Likes (Given)
    20585
    Likes (Received)
    9202

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ladymuck View Post
    With my tin foil hat on, I suspect that is HMRC's aim.
    Why do you need a tin hat? Of course it is HMRC's aim.
    Katy Perry - don't be afraid to catch feels. Taylor Swift - feels $1 a go.

  7. #7

    Godlike

    jamesbrown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    5,107
    Thanks (Given)
    63
    Thanks (Received)
    356
    Likes (Given)
    539
    Likes (Received)
    1587

    Default

    The minutes are a joke based on the reality of the discussion (according to IPSE), and hence the forum is no longer fit for purpose (assuming it ever was, which is doubtful), and is actually counterproductive.

  8. #8

    Respect my authoritah!

    NotAllThere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Far away from HMRC
    Posts
    17,351
    Thanks (Given)
    187
    Thanks (Received)
    760
    Likes (Given)
    1234
    Likes (Received)
    2627

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."
    That's because they haven't looked. (Also from Yes Minister, but can't find the full quote).
    You won. Get over it.

    --drunk on abuse of power--

  9. #9
    eek
    eek is offline

    bored now

    eek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    😂
    Posts
    22,173
    Thanks (Given)
    235
    Thanks (Received)
    1161
    Likes (Given)
    1028
    Likes (Received)
    3463

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    I think I'd have stood up and left the meeting at that point. No point listening to anything else if thst the rubbish they are going to open with.
    I actually would have asked why that's different from what I hear when down the pub in Newcastle talking to HMRC PM's but hey that's just local knowledge....

    However HMRC are correct it does seem that people are taking public sector IR35 contracts and it may be that rates haven't changed that much...
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  10. #10

    Should post faster


    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    164
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    8
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    23

    Default

    Many of the permie tractors working in the Public Sector are tulip scared to compete in the Private Sector. They're getting contracts rolled over, year on year where they are.

    They may be a few hundred down a month but they're still getting paid more than if they were permie and, generally, are working on their doorstep. They prefer that to working away or maybe having a couple of months between contracts and no money coming in.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.