IR35 Forum - July minutes
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Posts 11 to 20 of 46
  1. #11

    Nervous Newbie


    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    6
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by washed up contractor View Post
    Many of the permie tractors working in the Public Sector are tulip scared to compete in the Private Sector. They're getting contracts rolled over, year on year where they are.

    They may be a few hundred down a month but they're still getting paid more than if they were permie and, generally, are working on their doorstep.
    They prefer that to working away or maybe having a couple of months between contracts and no money coming in.
    Sadly I suspect that's why HMRC (and govt generally?) seem to consider all contractors to be "disguised employees on higher than the norm salaries" as their default position...

  2. #12

    Ddraig Goch


    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Cymru
    Posts
    9,039
    Thanks (Given)
    88
    Thanks (Received)
    166
    Likes (Given)
    1107
    Likes (Received)
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by northernladuk View Post
    I think I'd have stood up and left the meeting at that point. No point listening to anything else if thst the rubbish they are going to open with.
    Defies belief that HMRC think this. I'm betting there are loads of people who have first hand experience of this.

    I'm currently doing an inside IR35 public sector gig. I also know people who worked here before April.The turn of events here was:-

    Client: Sorry guys you're all going to be inside IR35 come April.
    Contractors: Sod that I'm off. I'm not risking retrospective investigation, and neither am I staying over paying hotels for myself, and paying shedloads of tax. (At this point apparently, 85% of contractors left)

    Client: Feck - what are we going to do now?
    Client (to agencies): OK. Sorry we're still doing the roles as inside IR35 but we realise we've got to up the rates by 35%.
    (Becomes a bit more worthwhile for contractors - like me - who live locally and are new to the client. Still stuck with useless local people like me because no-one can afford to stay over).

    Bottom line for client - its costing them 35% more for their contractors across the board. And now they're pretty much restricted to local people.
    Rhyddid i lofnod psychocandy!!!!

  3. #13

    Ddraig Goch


    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Cymru
    Posts
    9,039
    Thanks (Given)
    88
    Thanks (Received)
    166
    Likes (Given)
    1107
    Likes (Received)
    512

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by washed up contractor View Post
    Many of the permie tractors working in the Public Sector are tulip scared to compete in the Private Sector. They're getting contracts rolled over, year on year where they are.

    They may be a few hundred down a month but they're still getting paid more than if they were permie and, generally, are working on their doorstep. They prefer that to working away or maybe having a couple of months between contracts and no money coming in.
    From what I've seen there are not a lot who've done this at my client. Its more than a few hundred a month too.

    My rate increased by 35% over last gig (outside IR35) and take home is about the same after tax.
    Rhyddid i lofnod psychocandy!!!!

  4. #14
    eek
    eek is online now

    bored now

    eek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    😂
    Posts
    22,149
    Thanks (Given)
    235
    Thanks (Received)
    1158
    Likes (Given)
    1027
    Likes (Received)
    3449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by psychocandy View Post
    Defies belief that HMRC think this. I'm betting there are loads of people who have first hand experience of this.

    I'm currently doing an inside IR35 public sector gig. I also know people who worked here before April.The turn of events here was:-

    Client: Sorry guys you're all going to be inside IR35 come April.
    Contractors: Sod that I'm off. I'm not risking retrospective investigation, and neither am I staying over paying hotels for myself, and paying shedloads of tax. (At this point apparently, 85% of contractors left)

    Client: Feck - what are we going to do now?
    Client (to agencies): OK. Sorry we're still doing the roles as inside IR35 but we realise we've got to up the rates by 35%.
    (Becomes a bit more worthwhile for contractors - like me - who live locally and are new to the client. Still stuck with useless local people like me because no-one can afford to stay over).

    Bottom line for client - its costing them 35% more for their contractors across the board. And now they're pretty much restricted to local people.
    Correct but because there is still a name against the piece of work senior management don't see the problem.
    merely at clientco for the entertainment

  5. #15

    Super poster

    Fred Bloggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    4,665
    Thanks (Given)
    11
    Thanks (Received)
    76
    Likes (Given)
    60
    Likes (Received)
    257

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Camels View Post
    Sadly I suspect that's why HMRC (and govt generally?) seem to consider all contractors to be "disguised employees on higher than the norm salaries" as their default position...
    And in my own experience, I guess in probably 80 to 90% of cases that assumption would be pretty much correct. The problem has always been, and still is, identifying the 10 to 20% that aren't IR35 caught. So they give up trying and say "OK 100% of you are caught". it's been happening ever since IR35 became law. It'll stay that way until things like dividend taxation etc... close the gap entirely between IR35 and non IR35 roles.
    Public Service Posting by the BBC - Bloggs Bulls**t Corp.
    Officially CUK certified - Thick as f**k.

  6. #16

    Faqqed Off

    TheFaQQer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    35,986
    Thanks (Given)
    371
    Thanks (Received)
    1261
    Likes (Given)
    3618
    Likes (Received)
    3145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by psychocandy View Post
    Defies belief that HMRC think this.
    Note their use of the word "significant".
    Best Forum Advisor, 2014
    Work in the public sector? You can read my FAQ here
    Click here to get 15% off your first year's IPSE membership

  7. #17

    More time posting than coding


    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    409
    Thanks (Given)
    24
    Thanks (Received)
    31
    Likes (Given)
    548
    Likes (Received)
    123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by washed up contractor View Post
    Many of the permie tractors working in the Public Sector are tulip scared to compete in the Private Sector. They're getting contracts rolled over, year on year where they are.

    They may be a few hundred down a month but they're still getting paid more than if they were permie and, generally, are working on their doorstep. They prefer that to working away or maybe having a couple of months between contracts and no money coming in.
    The highlighted section above made me chuckle. I don't view the Public Sector any worse than the Private Sector for rolling contracts even though I've never worked in the Public Sector myself. I just saw an old contractor colleague from Nationwide Building Society flash up showing that he's just completed 5 years there; hell, I worked with people when I was there briefly who'd had rolling contracts for 10+ years.

    The financial services sector is every bit as bad as the Public Sector for permitractors with their rolling contracts. Many of them enforce their 18/24 month limit to show they're not really taking on long term contractors and to satisfy compliance. In many cases if they're important they'll get extended beyond the these artificial limits or disappear for a short period and then return.

  8. #18

    My post count is Majestic

    northernladuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    33,194
    Thanks (Given)
    135
    Thanks (Received)
    1348
    Likes (Given)
    1721
    Likes (Received)
    5808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ShandyDrinker View Post
    The highlighted section above made me chuckle. I don't view the Public Sector any worse than the Private Sector for rolling contracts even though I've never worked in the Public Sector myself. I just saw an old contractor colleague from Nationwide Building Society flash up showing that he's just completed 5 years there; hell, I worked with people when I was there briefly who'd had rolling contracts for 10+ years.

    The financial services sector is every bit as bad as the Public Sector for permitractors with their rolling contracts. Many of them enforce their 18/24 month limit to show they're not really taking on long term contractors and to satisfy compliance. In many cases if they're important they'll get extended beyond the these artificial limits or disappear for a short period and then return.
    If you'd worked in the PS you'd see has a point.
    'CUK forum personality of 2011' - Winner - Yes really!!!!

  9. #19

    Double Godlike!

    malvolio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Walking in the garden, dreaming of Olivia...
    Posts
    10,274
    Thanks (Given)
    0
    Thanks (Received)
    206
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    716

    Default

    The kicker here is that HMRC views all such reports of walkouts, rate adjustments and other inconvenient details as "circumstantial evidence" and therefore can be ignored. It's clear they are not listening to the strong objections to their position put by the non-HMRC members of the forum. Perhaps if the preening bastards went out and asked some questions outside their own little circle, they may then revise their view but that simply won't happen.

    Sir Humphrey would have been really impressed.
    Blog? What blog...?

  10. #20

    Dirty spekulant

    Jog On's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Fantasy land
    Posts
    6,126
    Thanks (Given)
    10
    Thanks (Received)
    73
    Likes (Given)
    35
    Likes (Received)
    190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    Minutes from the July IR35 forum can be found here.

    Some interesting things in there, including:

    "HMRC has seen no evidence of significant impact on attrition rates of contractors working in the public sector."

    "Concern that some agencies were reverting to paying the workers as sole traders in order not be caught by the reforms."

    "Conflicting anecdotal suggestions that workers are being forced to accept lower rates when engaged by the public sector, and also that some were negotiating higher rates to compensate for the reforms. HMRC was not aware of any significant movement in contractor rates, but this is a contractual matter."

    "It was noted that there had been no IR35 tribunal cases since September 2011. AR confirmed that there are cases that are likely to be litigated in the near future."

    "Members asked if the recent reforms in the public sector would be extended to the private sector. HMRC explained that the current focus is on embedding the recent reform, and that it was not possible to comment on the plans of the new administration. However, we do of course want to see compliance improve in the private sector."
    So how long do we have before this is rolled out in the private sector? Anyone got any intelligent guesses? 2-3 years?
    Useful Idiot

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.