Am I self-employed?
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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0n1k3r View Post
    If we were employees in the true sense we'd be having to pay ourselves NMW and the pension malarkey which we don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by m0n1k3r View Post
    I'm not working for myself. I am not an employee (else I would have a contract of employment, receive NMW, have to be enrolled in a pension, have employee rights and so forth). I am an officer of my company.

    That doesn't mean that some people aren't employees of their company (I know some people who have a contract of employment and do all the rest), but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are an employee of the company.

    Show me the law that supports that website - it doesn't exist.
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    I understood that an owner/worker/director or the Ltd Co was an officer of the company rather than an employee? But the HMRC page linked to seems to take a different view. Company officers, directors are on different terms compared to employees for NICs for example. Bizarre, the UK tax system is broken. Fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Bloggs View Post
    Company officers, directors are on different terms compared to employees for NICs for example. Bizarre, the UK tax system is broken. Fact.
    No argument there. The SA form is impossible to fill out if you take its literal meaning.

    From a purely tax point of view we're not self-employed, as that means a particular thing. But in a more general sense as other people would understand it, we are. If you ever find yourself in the unfortunate circumstance of going to the Job Centre to sign on*, trying to explain that you're not self-employed but a Ltd. company director but not an employee but haven't worked for 6 months so please give me free money, you'll get nothing but blank looks. Being self-employed they understand.

    *I'm not PC. I did it once after 6 months on the bench, and only for 3 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    I'm not working for myself. I am not an employee (else I would have a contract of employment, receive NMW, have to be enrolled in a pension, have employee rights and so forth). I am an officer of my company.

    That doesn't mean that some people aren't employees of their company (I know some people who have a contract of employment and do all the rest), but that doesn't necessarily mean that you are an employee of the company.
    Yes you are if you do anything else for the company than going to board meetings, signing off documents and making strategic decisions.

    https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/director

    Doing IT stuff for a client is not within the typical duties of a director.

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0n1k3r View Post
    Yes you are if you do anything else for the company than going to board meetings, signing off documents and making strategic decisions.

    https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/director

    Doing IT stuff for a client is not within the typical duties of a director.
    From your link: "If a person does other work thatís not related to being a director, they may have an employment contract and get employment rights."

    So they may be an employee, they may not. In my case, I am not an employee.

    If you want to be an employee of your company then great. I don't want to be, I'm not an employee, I'm not paying NMW, I'm not going to push my business down the route of needing to consider workplace pension and employment law - each to their own though.

    Again - show me the legislation that says that I am employee. It doesn't exist.
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    From your link: "If a person does other work thatís not related to being a director, they may have an employment contract and get employment rights."

    So they may be an employee, they may not. In my case, I am not an employee.

    If you want to be an employee of your company then great. I don't want to be, I'm not an employee, I'm not paying NMW, I'm not going to push my business down the route of needing to consider workplace pension and employment law - each to their own though.

    Again - show me the legislation that says that I am employee. It doesn't exist.
    So what would you class me as? I get a monthly salary from my ltd as well as dividends. But I have no employment contract?

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    Quote Originally Posted by le3ky View Post
    So what would you class me as? I get a monthly salary from my ltd as well as dividends. But I have no employment contract?
    An office holder or a worker, depending on whether you meet the worker criteria.

    If your company is paying NMW and meeting the rest of their obligations as an employer then you might be an employee as well. If you are an employee and the company isn't, then the company is breaking the law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    An office holder or a worker, depending on whether you meet the worker criteria.

    If your company is paying NMW and meeting the rest of their obligations as an employer then you might be an employee as well. If you are an employee and the company isn't, then the company is breaking the law.
    So there are three things then? Office Holder (which i guess i am as a director), Employee and worker? Is "worker" a standard legal concept as well?

    I'm relatively new so trying to understand!

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    Quote Originally Posted by le3ky View Post
    So there are three things then? Office Holder (which i guess i am as a director), Employee and worker? Is "worker" a standard legal concept as well?

    I'm relatively new so trying to understand!
    Yes - the GMB-backed Uber drivers who went to employment tribunal were found to be workers, not employees at the first tribunal (appeal is pending).

    There is no legal definition of self-employed in employment law, but there is in taxation law.
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