Opt in or out

[stuker]

HI All

First post -- Im coming back into contracting after a few years of permanent work and have been looking at a few messages on this board. A few people have been discussing the opt in/out elements of contracts and I was wondeing if someone could explain what this is.

thanks

[Ardesco]

Opt-In:

Money on time
Agency doing what they should

Opt-Out:

Money when agency feels like giving it to you
Agency doesn't bother to check that you CV/References are correct.
Agency saves money because they don't have to do as much and can hang onto you money as long as they like earning more interest off it.

The agency will probably tell you that your not IR35 compliant unless you opt out but in reality it makes no difference and is just a way for the agency to try and get out of doing the work they should.

Also it is illegal to opt out after you have met the clients so if you have already had an interview you can't opt out anyway. Some agency's will try to get you to opt out and backdate it anyway but as far as i'm aware it won't stand up in court.

[mailmannz]

NEVER EVER OPT OUT!

Only a fool opts out!

Mailman

[Liddle Feesh]

Mailman - why so?

Opting in means you have to provide the agency with ID too? And a whole load of references?

[mailmannz]

Only provide the stuff if they ask for it :rollin Besides, you should have all this stuff ready to go anyway.

From May1 to May 10 when I was looking for a job not one single agency asked for ID or proof of qualifications etc.

And by the time the client gets your CV in front of them its too late for them to demand you opt out.

Regards

Mailman

[WageSlave1]

I thought the PCG recommended contractors opt out?

[howie]

Hi. I to have recently returned to the UK, having been contracting overseas for years. It's all very confusing, and whilst this site and forum has been a godsend, there does appear to be contradictory advice (from veteran posters). I've scoured it for hours, and this is my first post.

My understanding is that opting in provides controls if I am likely to go perm at the end of the contract, and ensures I get billed even if the client is delaying. I like this.

It also appears to place a `burden` on the agency - in to doing what they are supposed to do, like checking references. Not too much to ask if they want 20% of my salary, I reckon.

Some veterans of this site say never opt out, others say to do so if a Ltd Co. And the PCG recommend opting out too.

Are there any clear and concise guidelines as to when I might wish to remain opted in e.g. certain contract wording I should be looking for?

I applied for a job yesterday, and received this automated email:

GCS does not supply workers who fall under the direction and control of our customers. Therefore, the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations ('the Regs') do not apply to the services that we supply.
:::::
It is vital that you confirm by return of email that you wish GCS to act on your behalf and that you wish to opt out of the Regs in order that you are not treated by the authorities as a worker under the control of the client for whom your company or any third party are providing contracted services.

Please reply with OPT OUT in the heading of your email...

Is this illegal? Sounds it. Should I report them to the PCG?

Cheers

Howie

[mailmannz]

Howie,

What you describe isnt illegal but it merely a convenient loophole given to agents by the PCG (more on this below).

I would look at opting in as protection against being ripped off by agents since they have to pay you regardless of whether they have been paid or not.

Also opting in doesnt mean you can go direct at the end of the contract.

What opting in allows for is for you to ditch the agent at the end of the contract. I bet that in 99.99% of the time that the agents dont even have clauses in their contracts with workers that gives them the right to be "managed" out of the contract if the contractor agree's to the extension.

Re PCG, of course this bunch of morons is going to advise contractors to opt out...after all...it was this "enlightened" group of ignorant fools who pushed for the option to opt in or out in the first place!

If it wasnt for the PCG there wouldnt be the chance for agents to force contractors to opt out (either opt out or dont bother working for us). Its an absolute crock of sh1t I tells you!

Finally whether you are opted in or opted out or shake a leg about at the end of the day it will make absolutely no difference to the IR if they come for you under IR35. Opting in our out is not a pointer in what type of relationship you have with the client.

Mailman

[WageSlave1]

Howie,

I won't pretend to be an expert on this, but if it helps, I generally opt out. From a hazy memory, the only real difference it makes it whether you can go direct with the client at the end of the contract, and do you really want to bother with that. Maybe others can confirm?

this site and forum has been a godsend, there does appear to be contradictory advice (from veteran posters)

About the only thing this community of geeks can agree on is that Dr Who is the stuff of wet dreams.

Should I report them to the PCG?

When it comes to the PCG, I think a fair assessment might be along the lines of, 'chocolate teapot' and 'about as useful as'. It tends to be a pretty selective organisation, with its esteemed leadership only interested in playing politics. I'll probably be struck down from on high for saying that :rolleyes

[howie]

Hi Mailman, WageSlave. Thanks for your responses. I had assumed that PCG were on our side. I hadn't heard of them until I browsed this forum. I take your point though. They fought to have the opt out clause inserted, so they are likely to recommend it.

Would you recommend using their IR35 assessment service that has been discussed in these forums?

Interesting that you differ in your opinions :-)

I think I am likely to opt out, as I can always decide to opt back in (before commencing the contract) according to this article on executives online )www.executivesonline.co.u...out-guide)

> Dr Who is the stuff of wet dreams. ??
oohh. think I'm in the wrong place. I one of those rare breeds of techies that hates Dr Who, Star Wars, Star Trek, Red Dwarf and especially Lord of the Rings! Think I'm destined to be a manager!